COVID 19 Vaccination Discussion

[steingar]

Get the damn vaccine folks.  I've had young students get the 'rona and be wiped out totally for a week.  Something that can kick a 20 year old's six is going to do a number of mine.  Get the vaccine.  It's the only way we're going to stop the virus and get things back to some semblance of normal.

[mooniac15u]

12 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

I've wondered about the FAA document you reference. It specifically states Pfizer and specifically does not state Moderna (or any other vaccine). You obviously received Moderna if they told you the second dose was four weeks out. That's standard for Moderna where Pfizer is three weeks between doses.

I received my second dose of Pfizer eight days ago. I really wanted long term data, specially late side effects but one of the hospitals I'm on staff at said it will be mandatory and I'm sure the other hospital I'm on staff at is going to say the same thing before long. I figured as long as it was mandated (if I wanted to keep my jobs, or probably to work an any hospital) and I wasn't going to get long term data in the next few weeks to months, I figured I may as well get it now.

The first vaccination was similar to a flu shot with a bit more of a sore arm and for longer. For the second one I prophylactically took Advil & Tylenol and continued taking both every six hours for the first three days. My arm was a bit more sore than the first vaccination but I also had a fairly large swelling at the site of injection that lasted for four days. It wasn't a bruise, no discoloration - just swelling, fairly firm.

One of the RNs I work with did not have a good experience after her second dose. She had chest pain and generalized very severe muscle soreness for four days and said she still didn't feel 100% four weeks later.

The FAA approval of the Moderna vaccine is here:

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=96302&omniRss=news_updatesAoc&cid=101_N_U

[KLRDMD]

6 hours ago, donkaye said:

Out of curiosity for the doctors on board, how is the effectiveness of a vaccine determined without exposing the volunteers to the actual virus?

My understanding of the published 95% efficacy of the vaccine is based on not getting sick if exposed to the virus after following the vaccination protocol. Unless something has been published recently that I missed, "not getting sick" does not mean you cannot acquire the virus and does not mean you cannot spread it if you do get it. Maybe the vaccination does protect you against those things but I do not believe it has been studied yet.

[mooniac15u]

In the clinical trials they divide the volunteers randomly into two groups and vaccinate one of the groups.  Then they wait while both groups are potentially exposed to the virus through normal activities.  Once they see a certain number of cases in the unvaccinated group they compare that to the number of cases in the vaccinated group and calculate the efficacy.  For most diseases this can take years but in a pandemic they quickly reached a useful number of cases in the two groups.  In both the Moderna and Pfizer trials they found about 95% efficacy and nobody in the vaccinated groups had a severe case of COVID-19.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I have two flight students who took a pause last March due to CoVid.  One is an ER physician & the other a surgeon, both frequently are around patients with the virus.  Back then it seemed prudent to keep our distance.  
I am scheduled to get my second Pfizer injection in a week and they are now both fully vaccinated.  
So we plan to resume training next month. 
We still will be wearing our masks in the cockpit.  

What’s interesting is I have never seen flight training so hot. Schools are busier than anytime in the last 20 years. Most are saying it’s an alternative to travel vacations. CFI’s are in hot demand now. 

[Amelia]

I had my first Moderna vaccine 10 days ago. No  symptoms other than mild soreness at the injection site. So, yesterday, I noticed mild itching on that arm, which became a small pink bump. By supper time the bump was the size of a quarter, itchy but not tender. This morning that itchy raised lump is 50c size. Oh, help. Quick! Call Dr. Google! The eminent medical journal USA Today published an article claiming my delayed reaction to be COVID Rash, a mild and limited allergic response. No big deal, they assure me. Get the second injection. In the other arm, maybe. 
My beloved has had his second vaccine, claims no side effects. I noticed a couple days of naps in the sunbeams, though. 
Beats getting the Rona, at my age!

[GeeBee]

I look upon getting a vaccination as a civic responsibility. Do people get sick and have reactions to vaccines? Yes, right now 6 people out of a million react to this vaccine, and nobody has died and only one minor hospitalization. I look upon it as being part of the effort to "herd immunity" to stop others from getting the disease, including my children, grandchildren, my 96 year old mother and the nice old 95 year old guy down the street who believe it or not just stopped flying. 

When I see the sacrifices those before us made, the men who without thought dropped whatever they were doing and went to the recruiting office after Pearl Harbor, many to never return, police officers who make a solo stop at 1am of a suspicious vehicle, or any of the people who serve us in every manner of civic life, getting a vaccine is not just small potatoes, it is small peas. It may seem like nothing, but as George Bailey found out....Bedford Falls really needs you. You never know who you might save.

[N201MKTurbo]

I don't mind getting the vaccine, but I don't want to sign away my HIPPA rights and get in their damn database. It's none of the governments business what medicines I've taken (I know, I just did MedXpress) or what businesses I've visited. They are trying to get us to a point where you won't be able to do anything unless you identify yourself to prove you have been vaccinated. This will allow them to track your every move. None of their damn business!

[RobertGary1]

28 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I don't mind getting the vaccine, but I don't want to sign away my HIPPA rights and get in their damn database. It's none of the governments business what medicines I've taken (I know, I just did MedXpress) or what businesses I've visited. They are trying to get us to a point where you won't be able to do anything unless you identify yourself to prove you have been vaccinated. This will allow them to track your every move. None of their damn business!

This does frighten me a bit. I noticed a sign at the pharmacy for the same for the flu vaccine and confirmed it with my md. He never notified me of this.

 

 

[ilovecornfields]

39 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I don't mind getting the vaccine, but I don't want to sign away my HIPPA rights and get in their damn database. It's none of the governments business what medicines I've taken (I know, I just did MedXpress) or what businesses I've visited. They are trying to get us to a point where you won't be able to do anything unless you identify yourself to prove you have been vaccinated. This will allow them to track your every move. None of their damn business!

They only give you the 5G mind-control tracker with the second dose, not the first. It does make you suddenly want to buy Microsoft products and care about malaria, though.

On a serious note, you can opt-out of the vaccine registry.  No one is trying to track your every move - you’re not that exciting.

https://cairweb.org/cair-disclosure-policy/

Edited January 29, 2021 by ilovecornfields

[GeeBee]

44 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I don't mind getting the vaccine, but I don't want to sign away my HIPPA rights and get in their damn database. It's none of the governments business what medicines I've taken (I know, I just did MedXpress) or what businesses I've visited. They are trying to get us to a point where you won't be able to do anything unless you identify yourself to prove you have been vaccinated. This will allow them to track your every move. None of their damn business!

Do you own an iPhone or Android phone?

 

[ilovecornfields]

10 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Glad you’re back, ilovecornfields.  I’ve missed having your medical insights the last 8 months.

Thanks! I had to take a break from social media for a while since I couldn’t reconcile what I was seeing every day in the hospital with the crazy stuff people were posting on the internet and it made me want to rip my hair out.

One of my colleagues said it felt like he was a fireman trying to put out a brush fire and random people would just show up, pour gasoline on the fire and tell him there’s no fire. I don’t know if any of you could tell, but it was making me a little irritable.

I guess for better or worse, at this point it seems like most people finally “get it” it’s just a shame so many people had to get burned before realizing what was in front of them the whole time.

Like someone else posted above, I’ve seen more people die this year than I have in the last 10 years combined. You start to get a little numb to it since there’s only so much you can do (high flow oxygen, decadron, proning, remdesivir, intubation..) Several of my colleagues have been diagnosed with PTSD and frankly I’m surprised it’s not more. Seeing the children with the post-COVID inflammatory syndrome really broke my heart too as many of the parents were under the mistaken impression that COVID doesn’t affect children and said they would have made different choices if they had know what could happen. Seeing children punished for adults bad behavior really takes a toll on you.

That being said, I actually feel more hopeful now than I have anytime since February. Somehow I managed not to get COVID or give it to my family which is nothing short of a miracle given the number of patients I saw and how many of my colleagues got it. My wife and I have been vaccinated and it looks like we finally have a chance of getting this thing  under control.

I’m finally looking forward to flying with a CFI again since, understandably, there were few willing to share a confined space with an ER doctor at the height of the pandemic. I certainly don’t blame them.

Hopefully we can start the healing process and move beyond this very dark chapter in all of our lives and come out the other end as better people.

[flyboy0681]

I get my second dose on Monday. I've never been more prepared of what to expect than this.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

They only give you the 5G mind-control tracker with the second dose, not the first. It does make you suddenly want to buy Microsoft products and care about malaria, though.

On a serious note, you can opt-out of the vaccine registry.  No one is trying to track your every move - you’re not that exciting.

https://cairweb.org/cair-disclosure-policy/

You’ll have to forfeit some freedoms like most airlines will probably not allow you to travel if not on the federal registry. 
Remember when your Ss card said “FOR SOCIAL SECURITYPURPOSES NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" ”? People worried it would be a way to enumerate all citizens. 

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

You’ll have to forfeit some freedoms like most airlines will probably not allow you to travel if not on the federal registry. 
Remember when your Ss card said “FOR SOCIAL SECURITYPURPOSES NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" ”? People worried it would be a way to enumerate all citizens. 

That came to pass, didn't it?

There are many, many other ways that is being done at this time, too.

[ilovecornfields]

2 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

You’ll have to forfeit some freedoms like most airlines will probably not allow you to travel if not on the federal registry. 
Remember when your Ss card said “FOR SOCIAL SECURITYPURPOSES NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" ”? People worried it would be a way to enumerate all citizens. 

You’re probably right. I have no knowledge regarding what airline policy will be in the future with respect to the vaccine registry (or anything else). I did get a paper card that lists my COVID vaccines on it so I’m not sure if this would be accepted in lieu of the  registry.

Honestly, I haven’t spent much time thinking about who has access to my vaccine records because I don’t really care. We’ve spent the last 20 years trading privacy for convenience (search engines, “free” email accounts, iPhone, android, all those “free” apps) that I don’t really have the expectation of privacy. I think if someone really wants to find something out about me then they will certainly be able to. Just like a lock only stops honest people this illusion of privacy is pretty superficial. 

[RobertGary1]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

That came to pass, didn't it?

There are many, many other ways that is being done at this time, too.

Privacy laws can easily be changed for the greater good. The first time a pilot crashes into a puppy school because of an undeclared medical condition the faa will have no issue in getting Congress to agree to exempt them from hipaa. 

[N201MKTurbo]

27 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Do you own an iPhone or Android phone?

 

Yes, and I can turn it off anytime I want. It is for my use, not the governments.

I was in ORD the other day. You cannot buy food there without a phone. That's crazy. You cannot pay for it without a phone app. they won't take cash or a credit card. It was the same vendor for all the places, it seemed.

[RobertGary1]

Just now, N201MKTurbo said:

Yes, and I can turn it off anytime I want. It is for my use, not the governments.

I was in ORD the other day. You cannot buy food there without a phone. That's crazy. You cannot pay for it without a phone app. they won't take cash or a credit card. It was the same vendor for all the places, it seemed.

Not sure if he’s a genius or a crackpot but Snowden claims phones are tracking us even when off. 
But I can choose to not have a phone without dying the choice is harder with a potentially life saving vaccine. 

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Yes, and I can turn it off anytime I want. It is for my use, not the governments.

I was in ORD the other day. You cannot buy food there without a phone. That's crazy. You cannot pay for it without a phone app. they won't take cash or a credit card. It was the same vendor for all the places, it seemed.

Guess I'll just be hungry if work makes me fly to / through Chicago again. There is no link between my phone and any bank, no apps, no paypal, nothing.

Besides, this is what I see on my cash money:  THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. How do places get away with not accepting it? Time for a pro-bono lawyer to start a class action lawsuit on behalf of a thirsty air traveler, and collect his third / half of the proceeds!

Edited January 29, 2021 by Hank

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

Guess I'll just be hungry if work makes me fly to / through Chicago again. There is no link between my phone and any bank, no apps, no paypal, nothing.

Besides, this is what I see on my cash money:  THIS NOT IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. How do places get away with not accepting it? Time for a pro-bono lawyer to start a class action lawsuit on behalf of a thirsty air traveler, and collect his third / half of the proceeds!

In some cities there are laws preventing stores from not accepting cash. Some shop&robs stopped accepting cash because of the potential for robbery but it was argued it disproportionately affect those who can’t get bank accounts. 
Not sure if those laws held up in Corona. We had some laws ignored at first in California like being illegal to offer free bags at grocery checkout. 

[mike_elliott]

4 minutes ago, Hank said:

Guess I'll just be hungry if work makes me fly to / through Chicago again. There is no link between my phone and any bank, no apps, no paypal, nothing.

Besides, this is what I see on my cash money:  THIS NOT IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. How do places get away with not accepting it? Time for a pro-bono lawyer to start a class action lawsuit on behalf of a thirsty air traveler, and collect his third / half of the proceeds!

I believe your problem is Andrew Jackson is being "cancelled" and wont exist going forward.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/535127-biden-replaces-andrew-jackson-portrait-in-oval-office-adds-cesar

 

[Hank]

Just now, mike_elliott said:

I believe your problem is Andrew Jackson is being "cancelled" and wont exist going forward.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/535127-biden-replaces-andrew-jackson-portrait-in-oval-office-adds-cesar

 

It's written on all U.S. Treasury Notes, regardless of denomination or whose image is engraved there. Some are at the bottom as shown, others are near the top of the note. All are legal tender for ALL DEBTS, including my lunch at the publicly-owned airport in Chicago.

[MooneyMitch]

Carefull y'all, on this thread.....................don't get "canceled" here on our wonderful MS forum.  We need you!

[jaylw314]

12 minutes ago, Hank said:

It's written on all U.S. Treasury Notes, regardless of denomination or whose image is engraved there. Some are at the bottom as shown, others are near the top of the note. All are legal tender for ALL DEBTS, including my lunch at the publicly-owned airport in Chicago.

From the US Treasury website:

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.