Seeking input on SWTA mods and 201 conversions

[Ashe]

I had been holding out for a J-bar Mooney with a 201 windshield and cowl.  I know the latter is not that common, but I also know that it was done under 337 and that the none of the FSDO's will field approve this particular mod anymore.  So, I thought it made sense to hold out until one came along.

Right off the bat, I found a 1968 M20F that had a full conversion: windscreen, cowl, belly, etc...even had wingtips, which I thought was unusual since I thought the J-bar M20F's had the twisted wings.  Unfortunately, the plane had a host of issues and didn't even make it to pre-buy.  Finding that plane so early probably did me a disservice, though, as it set my expectation/desire way too high, and since then, it's been a really long hunt...almost three years.  I did buy a house in the middle of things when they had the tax credit, so I was only actively shopping for maybe two of those three years, but I did track the market continuously for a few airframes, including the J-bar M20E and M20F (I didn't start considering M20C's until this year, and I know I missed one or two Modworks conversions during that time).  Needless to say, I'm getting impatient.  

The only two I've found in the last two years under $60K were an M20C and an M20E; both at Coy Jacobs' (incidentally, I saw both of those planes in mid-September - had stopped by SRQ on my own - both of those planes have spent the last 2 or 3 years unprotected in the Sarasota sun and salt air, and very much look it...the C model also has no spinner and a large bird's nest cascading out of the pilot side intake).  I tried to buy that Lo Presti cowled M20F, but the seller wanted a short sale, and I was unwilling to waive a pre-purchase inspection (I'd even found a way to have a mechanic go to the  guy's field).

As it stands now, there are four SWTA cowled aircraft available, all within my price range.  They're all practically Russ's "Texan" conversions.  I don't know if they actually were converted all at once or not, but they all have the full SWTA "kit" so to speak...windscreen, cowl, tips, belly, seal/fairing "speed kit", etc.  I'm wondering if I wouldn't be just as happy with one of these?

I know it'll have more of a "chin" than a 201 cowled plane, but from some threads I found searching these forums, it sounds like the SWTA cowl got pretty close to the actual 201-cowl in terms of speed increase and cooling improvement.  I'm not looking to go beat 201's with a vintage Mooney like I know some E-model hot rodders are fond of doing.  If I can get a reliable, repeatable 150 kt - 155 kt TAS cruise in the neighborhood of 10 gph, I'll be happy w/performance. 

Looks are of course more subjective.  I've seen the photos on Russ's site, and have been going through the photo galleries trying to find high resolution pics of SWTA cowled planes.  Some angles I've seen look pretty good, some I find I don't like so much.  But, truth be told, I haven't found a whole lot that I'd actually consider "high-resolution", or where the prop isn't covering the inlets.  It's been a slow search, though.

With the market the way it is, I'm trying to buy a plane that I can live with for the long-haul.  I don't want to end up selling a few months, or even one or two years from now.  I know I've over-analyzed things, I know I should have bought in years ago (although, my budget is more in-range now than it was in 2008), but I would appreciate any input/insight here.

Ashe

[fantom]

Quote: Ashe

Needless to say, I'm getting impatient.  

I know I've over-analyzed things, I know I should have bought in years ago (although, my budget is more in-range now than it was in 2008), but I would appreciate any input/insight here.

[rob]

I get a reliable, repeatable, 150-153kt cruise at 9-9.5gph without either of the Mods you require. I've only got the cowl closure and brake reversal on my C. I've outpaced planes with the 201 windshield and various fairings. Because of this, I think it's more important to find a straight airframe, and properly rigged plane. 

[Hank]

At the top of my list would be regularly flown and well maintained [hangar queens need not apply!]. Cosmetics are easy to fix. My plane came with the 201 windshield and cowl closure; still thinking about the brake reversal. Rigging is, of course, important but I never thought about the airframe itself being out of alignment. Wonder what removing the ADF towel-rack antenna from the tail would buy me?

[carusoam]

Hank,

If you get rid of the towel rack antenna where will you hang your towels....?

-a-

Ashe,

This is the logic I used to purchase my M20R (after being planeless for about 1 year).  Try on the logic for size, see if it works for you.

There is no need to wait, the buying market will not get significantly better.  (It has not changed in at least 2 years)

The borrowing market will not get significantly better.  (Interest rates are incredibly low, unless you are in Greece.)

There is not a reason that any better machines will appear on the market in the next year. (they are not being saved for later.)

M20 airframes are not getting any newer. 

The one you eventually will buy will still need some help to get it the way you want it.

I predict that it will cost more than you want to spend to upgrade. (and take longer too)

Since it will take longer than you expect, you might as well get going.

Find a few that make sense.  Visit them.  Build your plan on how to get a pre-purchase inspection done on your favorite choice(s).

 

If the above logic does not fit, you can use the reasoning I used in 1999 when I bought my M20C, three months before my second child was born:

Buy it now, because the finances won't get better for at least the next 20 years.

 

Go make it happen.  Tell us about your PPI plans....

Best regards,

-a-

[fantom]

Quote: carusoam

Go make it happen.  Tell us about your PPI plans....

 

Excellent advise from Anthony, and what I was trying to say  The longer you wait the older you future Mooney is getting, and pleasure delayed is pleasure lost forever.

[jbreda]

If you go about doing the mods to a Johnson Bar F, I have gone though the process.  The modifications can be done.  You will need a DER to approve data and parts new, servicable, or rebuildable.  I have paperwork and recent experience.  You can e-mail me at johnabreda@yahoo.com

John Breda

[scottfromiowa]

Rob, Not fair.  Your C has a hidden jet engine somewhere under that cowl.

[rob]

Quote: scottfromiowa

Rob, Not fair.  Your C has a hidden jet engine somewhere under that cowl.

[aerobat95]

I have a '74 F with the 201 windshield, lower cowl mod, flap gap seals, brake reversal, and wheel well liners and I have been seeing 156KTAS at 8000 on about 10.5 GPH.  You could probably pick up a nice F for a very nice price these days and do the mods.  I looked into what it would take to put a 201 cowl on and it just wasnt worth it for me.  Its too bad SWTA doesnt make the mod anymore.....but I wonder how much of an increase that would do. 

[scottfromiowa]

More like a tiger...than a hamster.  Speed is good

Quote: scottfromiowa

Rob, Not fair.  Your C has a hidden jet engine somewhere under that cowl.

[rbridges]

Quote: aerobat95

I have a '74 F with the 201 windshield, lower cowl mod, flap gap seals, brake reversal, and wheel well liners and I have been seeing 156KTAS at 8000 on about 10.5 GPH.  You could probably pick up a nice F for a very nice price these days and do the mods.  I looked into what it would take to put a 201 cowl on and it just wasnt worth it for me.  Its too bad SWTA doesnt make the mod anymore.....but I wonder how much of an increase that would do. 

[Ashe]

I guess what I was originally wondering is if that's all the difference between a SWTA cowl conversion and an actual 201 cowl.  I know Russ's cowl conversion did change the cooling significantly and I think improved the induction system a bit as well.  As I said, the thing really pushing me right now is that there are a couple of aircraft that are already modified within my budget, but they're SWTA conversions, not the Modworks style where they used the actual J-model components.

[danb35]

I'd just like to comment on something from the OP--any of the STC'd mods are already approved, and the FSDO has no involvement with them at all.  Your mechanic installs it, signs the 337, and sends it directly to OKC.  The problem is that parts for many of the STCs are in short supply, and in any case, getting the plane already modded is going to be more economical (if you can find it).  There are good reasons for looking for a plane with the mods already installed, but fear of the FSDO isn't one of them.

[N601RX]

There is one other option on the cowling that I have looked. It kind of falls in between the full 201 cowling and the lower fairing that lasar sells.  A couple of people on here have them and have pictures in their photo gallery. It does require the larger spinner form a J model, but these can be found used for a reasonable price.

www.aeroresourcesinc.com/store_/index.php/cPath/23_95_449

 

[Shadrach]

Quote: Ashe

 If I can get a reliable, repeatable 150 kt - 155 kt TAS cruise in the neighborhood of 10 gph, I'll be happy w/performance. 

Ashe

[Ashe]

I appreciate all of the responses, and I agree with what's being said.  It's time to pull the trigger.  The M20F I've been interested in is the white/blue plane on Barnstormers that's down in Kerrville, Texas.  It's owned by an A&P who lives in a flight park, so the thing's been hangared and (supposedly) meticulously maintained.  It has just about every aero mod I'd want already done to it, and from talking to two of the responders to this thread I've learned the door isn't necessarily shut on M20J conversions - the price has just gone up a bit.  More importantly, it sounds like it's literally just a couple knots, which is no reason to pass up a clean, well-maintained, still-flying airplane.  The owner has no problem taking it to Dugosh for a pre-buy, so if they sign off on it, I'll feel as comfortable as I possibly can with the condition...which as has been pointed out...is everything.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: Ashe

More importantly, it sounds like it's literally just a couple knots, which is no reason to pass up a clean, well-maintained, still-flying airplane.  The owner has no problem taking it to Dugosh for a pre-buy, so if they sign off on it, I'll feel as comfortable as I possibly can with the condition...which as has been pointed out...is everything.

[rbridges]

Scott is correct about cruise speed.  Even a 10knot difference only translates into 30nm after 3 hours, and that translates into <15 minutes at 130+ knots. 

I'd rather have a trouble free mooney that "only" cruises at 145 than a POS that can hit 155.