Co pilot brakes for 1964 M20 E

[Pilot boy]

I was informed that I will most likely not be able to do the commercial check ride in my Mooney M20E as I have no copilot brakes...even though I’ll be in the pilots seat.  Does anyone have the copilot brake kit for a 64 M20 E?  Or good shops to get pricing on it from.  I checked out one of the major ones and I’m getting quite an expensive quote for the install.  $5k in parts alone.  Any suggestions welcome.  I may just go rent a 172 to finish it out and then do the CFI check ride in the Cessna also.  Unfortunately I’m check ride ready in the M20E so I’m just seeing if there are some more cost effective alternatives out there.  

 

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

Did the DPE tell you this? Many of us have done our Commercial check rides in our Mooneys and almost none of us have right side brakes. I would double check that. I did my Commercial ride in my M20K without any right side brakes just in October. I told the DPE there weren't any brakes on his side and his response was, "of course not, it's a Mooney." "And further more, you're the pilot, I'm just along for the ride."

 

[Raymond J1]

Hummm !... I would say you have extra things on the left side. Nobody wants to stop a Mooney.

[kortopates]

That’s misguided information. Besides if it was true, you’ll probably quickly loose interest in doing it in your Mooney once you price parts and labor to add them. You want to have much greater need to have them than a check ride with the cost involved.
I have them on my K, but my wife and I are both pilots and she won’t let me in her left seat - so I really use mine on the right - when it’s my leg.


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[Schinderhannes]

18 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I have them on my K, but my wife and I are both pilots and she won’t let me in her left seat - so I really use mine on the right - when it’s my leg.

Very similar in our house, but my wife is the CFI in the family so I get to sit on the left side when it's my leg. 

[carusoam]

Good news Pilot Boy..!

You have a few choices...

1) Have the discussion with the guy you are going to fly the test with... it’s highly unlikely that you will need to add brakes for anything higher than the PPL... where you were proven capable of handling the braking duty.

2) Have a conversation with the local plane dismantler... pre-flown parts are available often at near ungodly prices...

3) Parts are available new from the factory at ungodly prices... (for comparison)

4) Many long bodies came with co-pilot brakes... want to up grade?

How does that sound... I’d go with the free conversation first...

PP thoughts, and a CB at heart...

Best regards,

-a-

[Jim Peace]

2 hours ago, Pilot boy said:

I was informed that I will most likely not be able to do the commercial check ride in my Mooney M20E as I have no copilot brakes...

Is this really a thing?  I have a friend who will get his commercial in my C with no right side brakes.  Can you please ask the DPE where it is written that the plane needs brakes?  I could really use this info ASAP....

TIA

 

EDIT for this link:  https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/regulatory-brief-faa-issues-new-interpretation-of-dual-controls

[kortopates]

Jim's @Jim Peacereference shows co-pilot brakes are not required for instruction nor any practical test.

[Matt_AZ]

When I was looking for my Mooney, I was still a student pilot & struggled to track down a Mooney with the co-pilot brakes. The cost to install was astronomical so I just ended up buying one with the copilot brakes already installed. You may have better luck with finding another DPE as opposed to trying to have the copilot brakes installed. 

[Pilot boy]

3 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Is this really a thing?  I have a friend who will get his commercial in my C with no right side brakes.  Can you please ask the DPE where it is written that the plane needs brakes?  I could really use this info ASAP....

TIA

 

EDIT for this link:  https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/regulatory-brief-faa-issues-new-interpretation-of-dual-controls

My instructor only spoke to one DPE we both know...I am getting different answers from different instructors now On this issue and am going to ask another DPE I know or possibly even the FSDO.  I am concerned about the cfi ride in the right seat having no brakes but if I can get commercial done at least that would be better.  I’ll go take a look at that link.

[carusoam]

That link should be good...

As this whole challenge is an issue not related to the rating you are seeking...

Now, if the DPE is uncomfortable in your ship, with you operating the brakes...

You can work on your team building skills with the ancient, crusty, old DPE...   (the DPE is probably in his thirties... )

Or find one that is up to speed with the AOPA interpretation of what dual controls really means...

For interpretation of the rules for your next rating, it may help to attain a legal degree... or have a decade of working in a regulated field... FAA, FDA, FCC, etc....  ‘it all depends on what the definition of the word is is...’ - W. Clinton on the topic of legal interpretation...

You might have a list ready for things you only have one of...

• One set of brake controls...
• One parking brake control... which needs the left seat to step on the brakes first...
• One door...

If the DPE doesn’t trust you to use the brakes properly... how can you expect him to operate the door properly?

Reminder... first thing you do as the plane starts to move... apply both brakes to demonstrate they are both working properly... (is this anywhere on a check list?)  

Of you ride a motorcycle... doing a brake check is a brilliant idea... I know a guy...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Pilot boy]

4 minutes ago, carusoam said:

That link should be good...

As this whole challenge is an issue not related to the rating you are seeking...

Now, if the DPE is uncomfortable in your ship, with you operating the brakes...

You can work on your team building skills with the ancient crust old DPE...   (the DPE is probably in his thirties... )

Or find one that is up to speed with the AOPA interpretation of dual controls...

For interpretation of the rules for your next rating, it may help to attain a legal degree... or have a decade of working in a regulated field... FAA, FDA, FCC, etc....

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

From what I’m reading in the link both the commercial and even the CFI (from the right seat) ticket would be okay to do without brakes on the copilot side.  However I’ve read in some other inter web places that the DPE could refuse if they don’t feel comfortable with it as a matter of safety.  I will find out if this DPE is refusing due to lack of knowledge or a safety concern.  It may not be worth the battle we shall see.  The school has good 172s, I’d just have to back to one and learn the maneuver settings.

[carusoam]

PB,

Notice how I used the words team building...

And discussed the DPE as being old and crusty...

Expect when you contact him... he is probably really interested in your success...

Much of the old FAA has become the new FAA... and nuns aren’t wrapping kids on the fingers with rulers anymore... 

Expect the conversations to be professional...

If the DPE starts to discuss anything other than flying.... you will sense the distraction bell ringing in your head... 

Get prepared, execute, come back and post your results!

PP thoughts only, 

-a-