New seat foam

[Derrickearly]

Had a local upholstery shop replace my front seat foam. No before photo, since they look the same. They sure feel nicer, and no more foam crumbs on the floor. 

[carusoam]

Looks like Apollo 11...

Ready for lift off...

-a-

[Derrickearly]

Laughing! The image rotations on my phone would not upload. Thanks for the help.

[StevenL757]

20 hours ago, Derrickearly said:

Had a local upholstery shop replace my front seat foam. No before photo, since they look the same. They sure feel nicer, and no more foam crumbs on the floor. 

Did you opt to go with memory foam or "regular" foam?  I'm not aware of all the options that shops are using today, so wanted to get an idea.  I'll be looking to do something similar in the next few months.

Steve

[Derrickearly]

42 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Did you opt to go with memory foam or "regular" foam?  I'm not aware of all the options that shops are using today, so wanted to get an idea.  I'll be looking to do something similar in the next few months.

Steve

It's just regular foam.  This shop specialized in automotive seats, so the foam is a little denser than what is used for furniture. It was $300 for the two bottom seats. The seat back foam was fine. 

Used four new 1/8x1" cotter pins for the track stops. I collected these from my mechanic rather than pay $10 for shipping from Spruce.

[RobertGary1]

Do you have to do a flammability test before an A&P signs it off?

 

-Robert 

[Derrickearly]

Didn’t worry about that. 

[carusoam]

Typically the automotive guys have the same challenges for flammability...

Not sure what the home furniture guys use though...  fires aren’t really appreciated there either...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[RobertGary1]

I was asking more for the logbook. Unless you want to claim it was done by a hanger fairy would you need to log a flammability test?

[jetdriven]

What tests are required for a CAR3 aircraft?

[cctsurf]

On 11/19/2020 at 10:57 AM, RobertGary1 said:

Do you have to do a flammability test before an A&P signs it off?

FAR 43.13 Appendix A states that interior work is "(c) Preventive maintenance" when it is "(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft."

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

What tests are required for a CAR3 aircraft?

 Here's information on the flash test required:

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/74371

AC 43.13-1B parts 9-60-64 speak to what can be done on interiors.  I may post the text in a following message (It's not really that long), because I don't know how many times these questions come up and there is much discussion (see thread below, among MANY others).

If a new interior is installed in an aircraft, at annual, the IA is required to verify that it meets burn standards.

I'm struggling to get a direct link to the faa on the burn test required for part 23, but here's an outside link to the text:

https://www.avweb.com/features_old/far-23-853appendix-f-to-part-23-test-procedure/

Much discussion of this in this thread:

[cctsurf]

SECTION 4. CABIN INTERIOR

9-60. GENERAL. Only materials that are flash-resistant should be used in cabin interiors. The requirements related to fire protection qualities of cabin interior materials are specified in CAR 3.388, fire precautions or 14 CFR part 23, section 23.853 compartment interiors

9-61. CAR-3 AIRCRAFT INTERIOR. The requirement for an interior of a CAR-3 aircraft that is used only in 14 CFR, part 91 operations, where smoking is not permitted, is that the materials shall be flash-resistant. (Reference CAR-3.388.)

a. For compartments in CAR-3 aircraft where smoking is permitted, the wall and ceiling linings, the covering of all upholstering, floors, and furnishings shall be flame-resistant. Such compartments should be equipped with an adequate number of self-contained ash trays. All other compartments shall be placarded against smoking. (Refer to CAR-3.388.)

(1) If fabric is bought in bulk to refurbish the interior, seats, and ceiling liners for a CAR-3 aircraft used in part 91 operations, a manufacturer’s statement, declaring that the material meets the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) or similar national standard for either flash resistance or flame resistance, would be acceptable, but only for a CAR-3 aircraft installation. (Refer to 14 CFR part 43, section 43.13(a).) A manufacturer’s statement is acceptable due to neither the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) nor the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) having published an FAA fire standard for either flash or flame resistance for interior materials for CAR-3 aircraft. Since the FAA would accept and recognize a national standard, the mechanic would reference the manufacturer’s statement and the national standard that the material meets in the aircraft’s maintenance records.

(2) If an annual inspection is performed on a CAR-3 aircraft with a new interior and there is no mention of a manufacturer’s statement that the fabric is flash or flame resistant as applicable, the possibility exists that the fabric is an unapproved part. The mechanic should take the necessary steps to ensure that the fabric meets or exceeds the ASTM or national standards. (Refer to 14 CFR part 23, appendix F.)

(3) If an FAA-approved STC interior kit is installed in a CAR-3 aircraft, and the material and fabric in the kit are PMA or TSO approved, the mechanic should include the STC number in block 8 of FAA Form 337.

b. It is recommended that for all CAR-3 interiors to use only fabric and materials that meets the more stringent requirements of part 23, appendix F.

9-62. PART 23 AIRCRAFT INTERIOR. Materials used in part 23 aircraft interiors must meet the requirements of section 23.853, and the burn test requirements called out in part 23, appendix F.

a. If the fabric is bought in bulk to refurbish a part 23 aircraft then the fabric must meet the part 23 burn requirements. A burn test would have to be done on samples of the material and fabrics by an approved and rated FAA Repair Station. That FAA Repair Station would certify that all the material and fabrics meet part 23, appendix F requirements. The mechanic would include that repair station’s statement in the aircraft’s records.

b. If STC-approved interior kit with either PMA or TSO-approved materials for a part 23 aircraft is bought, the mechanic would only have to reference the STC number on FAA Form 337 and the aircraft’s records. Part 23, appendix F would not be required.

c. If an annual inspection is to be performed on a part 23 aircraft in which a new interior was installed, but the aircraft’s records do not reflect that a burn test was performed on the interior’s materials and fabric by an FAA Approved Repair Station, or there is no mention of an STC or FAA Form 337 in the aircraft records, then a burn test that meets, part 23, appendix F must be accomplished before the aircraft is approved for return to service.

9-63. SOURCE OF INFORMATION. If information regarding the original or properly altered fire protection qualities of certain cabin interior materials is not available, requests for this information should be made to the aircraft manufacturer or the local FAA regional office, specifying the model aircraft and the aircraft manufacturer. The date the aircraft was manufactured or the serial number, and the 14 CFR part under which the aircraft is operated (i.e., CAR-3, 14 CFR part 91, or part 121, etc.).

9-64. UPHOLSTERY AND/OR BELTS. Upholstery and/or belts that have been washed may lose some or all of their fire-resistant qualities. Unless the soap is completely removed from the cloth, the strength of the material may be significantly reduced. Consult the manufacturer to determine how to maintain the fire-resistant qualities.

[carusoam]

Robert,

You have a great question...

 

 

Holy cow CW!

Great detailed response...

 

Go MS!

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

So we need to worry.about CAR 3 Flash Test in CAR 3.388, unless you permit smoking inside. It is NOT permitted inside anything that I own at any time, or in anything else while I operate it.

[cctsurf]

37 minutes ago, Hank said:

It is NOT permitted inside anything that I own at any time, or in anything else while I operate it.

I think there needs to be a placard and the Ash Trays need to be removed...

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

So we need to worry.about CAR 3 Flash Test in CAR 3.388, unless you permit smoking inside. It is NOT permitted inside anything that I own at any time, or in anything else while I operate it.

For non smoking how do you determine it’s flash resistant?

 

”where smoking is not permitted, is that the materials shall be flash-resistant”

 

-Robert 

[Hank]

42 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

For non smoking how do you determine it’s flash resistant?

 

”where smoking is not permitted, is that the materials shall be flash-resistant”

 

-Robert 

It's in the big long FAR quote above. Memory says (CAR3.388). So look it up.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, cctsurf said:

I think there needs to be a placard and the Ash Trays need to be removed...

My ashtray has been replaced by an ashlight. Don't recall if I have a placard or not, it would be in the right side and I just don't sit over there . . . . .

[LANCECASPER]

On the other hand if the fire is to the point where the seat cushion itself is on fire you have bigger problems than a logbook entry. by the way, the seats look good.

[RobertGary1]

21 hours ago, Hank said:

It's in the big long FAR quote above. Memory says (CAR3.388). So look it up.

My response was in context to the poster who opined testing wasn’t necessary for non smoking planes. 

 

-Robert

[M20F]

On 11/18/2020 at 12:37 PM, Derrickearly said:

no more foam crumbs on the floor. 

 

What do you eat on long flights then?

[Derrickearly]

Okay.  So now I'm curious. Is my 1976 Mooney 20F certified to CAR-3 or part 23?

[Hank]

All Mooneys are CAR3. Even the Ultras are based on the original M20.

[Derrickearly]

Okay, I've relented and sent off my foam samples to Aeroblaze with a check for $75. I ticked the box for the 20 inch/min horizontal test. This matches the AC 23-2A description for the CAR 3.388 flash resistant materials.  I guess that I need to add a NO SMOKING placard, as well.  Thank you folks for the education.

[JimB]

13 hours ago, Hank said:

All Mooneys are CAR3. Even the Ultras are based on the original M20.

Sort of...up to the F and G they were only CAR 3. Afterwards it was CAR but they also were certified to some regulations of Part 23. 

F Models

J Models 

K Models

Edited November 23, 2020 by JimB