MAC

[AndyFromCB]

Here is what I gathered yesterday about voltage regulator for a Mooney Bravo -It's a MAC part, manufactured by Zeftronics, but a MAC part non the less -It's $1890 with delivery of 1 to 2 weeks after order via MAC so basically between sometimes in the future and never since it's been going on for a month -Zeftronics will not touch one to repair unless send to them by MAC -MAC will not touch one either -Zeftronics does not make a PMA replacement part but they do make the part -A certain MSC located in the same area of Zeftronics will fix the existing one for a fraction of the cost of new. Great. Being it was shipped overnight for today's delivery, I wonder which Zeftronics employee is calling in sick today for some extra cash on the side. -Welcome to the strange world of aviation -If I run my company the same way as MAC I'd be out of business. Oh, they are ;-) Why even bother with GA anymore is my question? Airlines are terrible but owning a high performance GA aircraft is only about 50K a year short of a 25 hour NetJets card which equals to about 75 hours of GA flying. I think the problem with the whole industry is the love we have for our airplanes so we find this acceptable. If this was our daily driver, we'd be looking for something else ASAP.

[KSMooniac]

Certainly frustrating, just be glad the part is actually in production and sorta available!  Perhaps the only difference is a sticker...

[AndyFromCB]

KSMoniac,

It's exactly this attitude that got us where we are today: just be glad is semi available. At $1860 a pop for what at most is $100 of eletronic components is wrong. I have no problem paying $1860 or $1890 or whatever it is, but at that price I want it on my door step the same day and since I pay my bills and don't complain, I want my A&P to install it yesterday. No, I am not kidding, that is how the rest of world works in this stratosphere. This is what I deliver to my clients hence I can afford to fly and I expect the same. What is the point, here is the breakdown:

-$2000 monthly payment

-$250 a month in insurance

-$240 a month for a hangar full of frogs

-$875 a month for avgas

-$1750 a month in maintenance and parts

-databases, XM weather, training, etc at $300 a month

That's $66K a year to fly 75 hours a year not including my time at $400 or so an hour, include that in there, and I am better of with 30 hours of jet charter per year and yes, I can aford it, the problem is I like to fly and for the money spent, I would like to be treated like I am around a jag and/or a lexus dealership.

[scottfromiowa]

You should sell your Mooney and charter.  You can be waited on and NOT have to deal with the rest.  Why don't you just pay someone to "deal" with keeping your plane flying?  You have had a much better experience with car dealerships than have I.  I believe Cessna still has doors open and sells a nice piston.  They have "people" that can take care of your needs and make you feel special for having spent several hundred grand on a flying machine...

You sound winey and elitist, but that's just me.  Perhaps this should have been on the Modern Mooney list.  I don't read those.  I guess this is a taste of how the other side lives.

Mooney is NOT in operation.  YOU CHOOSE POORLY.

[AndyFromCB]

Scott,

I am elitist because I expect things to work, I didn't work my ass my whole life to have to deal with BS, the software my company designs works and we stand behind our products. Don't worry, my Bravo, just like my Arrow will make someone a really fine airplane in a few years after it's been gone over with a toothpick and upgraded and I'm sure I'll lose money selling it, however, in the mean time, I expect it to be a reliable form of transportation. If that's elitist then no wonder the whole country is going down the drain because we no longer expect products to work as advertised. All I am asking for is to be able to get from Omaha, NE to Des Moines, IA few times a month on a schedule and then a few times per year go to Colorado and/or Wyoming and apparently that makes me an elitist ass. In the mean time, I decided to keep my Arrow for the useful load and hopefully they will not both be down at the same time.

BTW, I already pay someone to look after my airplane, but apparently at $95 an hour they are too busy to call a few MSCs and find out how to get a voltage regulator working again.

[scottfromiowa]

O.K.

[DaV8or]

To the OP-

Man I hear you! It is ridiculous what we have to do and spend just to keep our birds and ourselves flying. The production, certified aircraft world has steadily gone downhill and we are reaching bottom. Sad thing is, it's really not all the manufacturer's fault. It's a perfect storm of liability insurance, FAA regs, bad economy and people losing interest in flying. It's hit every manufacturer.

I would normally suggest changing to a manufacturer that is still in business, but actually, I hear it's not much better at Cessna, Piper or Beech. Still loads of money and poor service. It's really becoming painfully clear to me why so many have chosen the experimental alternative. If you were flying a Lancair IV, lets say, you would have that regulator for about $200 and it would have been installed yesterday.

As much as I love my Mooney, I suspect my next plane will be an experimental, probably a Lancair 360 or Glasair. The certified world with all it's restrictions and expenses is getting kind of silly. Seriously, when one has to wonder if replacing a light bulb with a no tools, twist in LED replacement is really legal or not, we have crossed into the land of nonsense.

I agree that there is an element of pilot's being resigned to this fate and so seemingly part of the problem, but what are we supposed to do about it? Nobody except us and a small industry that supports us cares if we fly or not. It's not like we can boycott, protest or have a demonstration or anything. No one feels sorry for the man that owns his own airplane. We do not have popular support. The regs aren't changing, the lawyers aren't going away and new pilot starts are not going up. We're stuck.

I don't mean this in disrespectful way at all, but in your case, maybe you should consider the fractional Jet option and then get yourself a fun plane like, acrobatic, warbird, float or bush plane to get your flying fix for yourself. The comfort, speed and reliabilty of a biz jet can't be matched.

[carusoam]

Dave,

Nicely articulated...

 

Astel,

When you rant at mooneySpace you will find that we are not a really large anonymous group.  We are the same mooney driven folks that feel your pain.  You will find most of us are searching for and sharing solutions to mooney driven challenges.

Where you may have been called elitist, well, most of us don't publish an hourly rate related to our income.  Yours seems to have an extra zero on the end of it.  Consider that you may have insulted the person who was going to help you next.

With that kind of money being spent, I would seriusly consider moving on also.  That's alot of coin and not enough reliability for you.  Mooneys involve enduring alot of pain to go fast efficiently.  With that kind of money I would seek a less painful route.

Do the cirrus guys have a forum?

Best regards,

-a-

[DaV8or]

Quote: carusoam

Do the cirrus guys have a forum?

[AndyFromCB]

Gals/Guys,

I already appologized to Scott and here is my appology to the rest of you. I was just so frustrated. I just bought this Bravo, I've been moving on up in hours, trying to slowly move up the airplane lader as in to get the experience and not kill myself while doing so. Hence, a Cherokee 140 for a few years, a Piper Arrow with everything under the sun and now a Bravo. A jet fractional doesn't appeal do me at all, both money and the appearance wise. I bought a "cheap" Bravo to upgrade extensivelly like I did wth my Arrow. I didn't get an Acclaim because I hated the idea of being tied to Garmin/MAC STC. So once again, I appologize I came off like an ass. With my Arrow all parts were expensive but they were always 24 hours away. I did not expect this with the Mooney. I didn't reallize the situation MAC was in. 

Andy

 

[Ned Gravel]

There you are Andy:

I thought you were in there somewheres.  Your latest words demonstrate a great deal more integrity than your earlier posts.  Well done, sir.

[scottfromiowa]

I also appologized to Andy...and acknowledged his pain.  No appology necessary from him to me.  He is a class act.

Scott

[gjkirsch]

Don't despair, I am on my 4th Mooney and 2nd Bravo.  It has been the same with all of them for 15 years.  Buy the plane with a new MSC annual and then spend a small fortune the first year getting everthing fixed! I have had this one for 5 months, fresh out of a MSC annual and have put 11K into maintenance.  But if this one holds true to the others, once it is sorted out, it will prove to be very reliable and trouble free.  FWIW, I have never had any airframe or real engine issues, it is all the electrical and those damn autopilots that drive me nuts. 

[gjkirsch]

Don't despair, I am on my 4th Mooney and 2nd Bravo.  It has been the same with all of them for 15 years.  Buy the plane with a new MSC annual and then spend a small fortune the first year getting everthing fixed! I have had this one for 5 months, fresh out of a MSC annual and have put 11K into maintenance.  But if this one holds true to the others, once it is sorted out, it will prove to be very reliable and trouble free.  FWIW, I have never had any airframe or real engine issues, it is all the electrical and those damn autopilots that drive me nuts. 

[rbridges]

Quote: DaV8or

As much as I love my Mooney, I suspect my next plane will be an experimental, probably a Lancair 360 or Glasair. The certified world with all it's restrictions and expenses is getting kind of silly. Seriously, when one has to wonder if replacing a light bulb with a no tools, twist in LED replacement is really legal or not, we have crossed into the land of nonsense.

 

[AndyFromCB]

Gordon,

I found that to be the case with all airplanes I've owned. I have always paid top dollar for a well maintained aircraft because my life depends on them. My arrow would be such an example. And yet, I have always found that my maintainance standards are either higher or that my mechanic is a genius at finding problems. The arrow cost close to 14K to fix all the squaks the first year, we literally pulled the wings of the airplane and took the whole thing apart. After that, in two years of ownership, she's never left me stranded. I think I lost an alternator once which turned out of be a wire becoming lose. Hope to turn the Bravo into a machine like that as well. I cannot imagine flying another high performance aircraft other than Mooney, well, maybe a TBM ;-) if I ever can afford one. I just found myself ultra frustrated with the whole situation until Don Maxwell came to the rescue. I kind of wish a few of the MSCs would just get together and buy MAC and only make parts. 

Andy

P.S. As to autopilots, if that KFC 150 even starts acting up on me for 3 seconds, it will be getting replaced with a S-TEC 55. While nowhere as smooth as attitude based autopilots, with GPSS, it doesn't really mater as far as I am concerned and having have flown without a glitch behind an S-TEC, I can attest to their reliablity. On the other hand, the service from Cobham is probably worst than MAC/Piper/Cessna/Beech combined. 

[jetdriven]

You can legallly do anything to an aircraft that you wish. But an appropriately-rated mechanic must supervise you,("available for consultation" works) and inspect the work to sign it off.  Find someone ok with this arrangement and pay them well.    We have saved tons of money that way, and all the repairs are legal and proper.

 

I hear a lot of problems with KFC-150 autopilots..   Many failures of boards and servos that keep failing one after another. Hopefully Avidyne can cetify the DFC-90 for our planes.  That uses the existing servos and can right the plane from upside down, something only an attitude-based autopilot can do.  9 grand.

[jetdriven]

Your 1800$ alternator problem is kinda like the 25K for a G1000 WAAS upgrade in a Cessna, but Mooney charges you 80K to pass it through them because Garmin lets the manufacturers certify the G1000 with the airframe manufacturer.   What a scam.

[DaV8or]

Quote: jetdriven

Your 1800$ alternator problem is kinda like the 25K for a G1000 WAAS upgrade in a Cessna, but Mooney charges you 80K to pass it through them because Garmin lets the manufacturers certify the G1000 with the airframe manufacturer.   What a scam.

[1964-M20E]

This has been said before but we really should be able to take a certified airplane that is 10, 15 years old or older and for Part 91 operations re-classify it into the experimental class.  Annual inspections would still be required but all repair work and upgrades could then be done by the owner.  We could then put the avionics of our choice in the airplane without concern for certifications or STCs only your good judgment.  This would be for those who are inclined to keep up there airplanes themselves.  

 

The manufacturers would be exempt form liability and the owner would have the same latitude as a builder of an experimental aircraft.  Yes there would be some missteps by owners but no more than with the experimental class.  Further it would be the owner’s option to reclassify the aircraft.  You might take a hit on resale value but depending on what you paid for it might not matter and the hit might even be negative i.e. added value.  Experimental aircraft sell for a pretty good price.

 

Would I do everything without a certified mechanic no, but I could do more than the current regulations allow me to do and still feel comfortable.

[jetdriven]

Problem with that is the aircraft no longer conforms to its type certificate, and it becomes an unknown quantity.  Wth that, valuation is harder to establish. 

You do have that option at any time if you wish to.  My former boss put a TIO-541 from a Duke in his V-tail Bonanza. 375 HP at altitude, and 50 gallon a side tip tanks.  It would redline the airspeed indicator at about any altitude.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: astelmaszek

I cannot imagine flying another high performance aircraft other than Mooney, well, maybe a TBM ;-) if I ever can afford one. I just found myself ultra frustrated with the whole situation until Don Maxwell came to the rescue. I kind of wish a few of the MSCs would just get together and buy MAC and only make parts. 

Andy

 

[aerobat95]

I feel your pain too.....I hate having to pay an A&P to replace an egt probe or a starter.  Some stuff really isnt  that hard to do if you have basic mechanical skills and the right tools.  Would I personally chage a prop or a engine...no, but there are people out there that can.  What kills me as well is that I have better attention to detail than some of the people out there maintaining our planes.  On many things I feel I can do as good or better of a job.  I cherrish the day I can find an A&P willing to sign off on my work for a minimal charge.

[MooneyMitch]

Hi aerobat95.

Pursue your A&P.  I am considering such myself.   Just a thought.

[DaV8or]

Quote: 1964-M20E

This has been said before but we really should be able to take a certified airplane that is 10, 15 years old or older and for Part 91 operations re-classify it into the experimental class.  Annual inspections would still be required but all repair work and upgrades could then be done by the owner.  We could then put the avionics of our choice in the airplane without concern for certifications or STCs only your good judgment.  This would be for those who are inclined to keep up there airplanes themselves.  

 

The manufacturers would be exempt form liability and the owner would have the same latitude as a builder of an experimental aircraft.  Yes there would be some missteps by owners but no more than with the experimental class.  Further it would be the owner’s option to reclassify the aircraft.  You might take a hit on resale value but depending on what you paid for it might not matter and the hit might even be negative i.e. added value.  Experimental aircraft sell for a pretty good price.

 

Would I do everything without a certified mechanic no, but I could do more than the current regulations allow me to do and still feel comfortable.