Mooney and Flying Family

[gsxrpilot]

14 hours ago, LevelWing said:

I didn't realize you dialed it back that much. What kind of speeds are you seeing when you're running at 9.5gph?

It depends on altitude. 9.5 gph is about 62% power or about 130 HP. But with the turbo, it will make that 130 HP all the way up to FL260 or FL270. So the higher you go, the faster you go. 

I typically see 150 knots down low around 8000 or 10000 ft. But just a few thousand higher and I'm doing 160 or 170 knots. And if up in the flight levels with an O2 mask on, I'm getting 190 knots.  This is all at the same 9.5 gph.

[NJMac]

Sometimes it’s mayhem.  The isolate button on the intercom is your friend during departure and nearing the pattern.

Appreciate the feedback on the front right seat. You had me laughing out loud with this section.

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[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

Did you only use car seats in your car because you were legally required to?  I always had the kids in car seats in the plane because the kids were too small for the adult-sized seat belts to properly protect them in the event of an accident.  The lack of shoulder harnesses in the rear seat of short body Mooneys was another reason to favor using the car seats.

No.  They make sense in a car.  In the airplane they don’t.  In the back seat with normal seat belts and kids that can sit up, low speed impacts are survivable.  High speed impacts are probably fatal for everyone.  I do agree that front seat occupants need to fit the shoulder harnesses.  Honestly, I don’t appreciate you insinuating that I am reckless with the safety of my children.

[NJMac]

My wife loves the fact that we can take the kid, currently 5 months, out of his car seat and nurse him as we barrel along at 140kts. She laments road trips and not being able to do that.

 

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[Tx_Aggie]

On 8/23/2020 at 1:32 PM, NJMac said:

My wife and I keep having this conversation. Translation, I keep wanting to upgrade and she keeps finding ways to continue to make our E work.

I just shared this photo in a different thread. We've found that when traveling together (not our primary plane mission), pulling the front right seat leaves her with a lot of room to care for our child in the back. Not shown in the foreground was 2 large luggage items. Behind them was our pack and play and a few other bulky items. I did the W&B multiple different ways, TO and landing, and we were inside the envelope the whole time.

We both would like a 2nd child in the next year or so. Hopefully by then child 1 can sit right seat way forward, leaving her and youngest in the back.

I brought this up on the FB group a month or so back. Our working plan at that point is just to fly with overnight bags and ship anything we need to the designation FBO. Should work until they size out. Don't want a flying SUV any sooner or longer than necessary

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This is great! I just had my copilot seat out taken out for an upcoming family trip and it really opens up the cabin a lot!

[EagleDriver]

Just more info for traveling with kiddos.  You can “share” rides with a few different companies, rent someone’s personal car, vacation home, guest home...you can also do it with non-critical (that part is my opinion only) baby gear.  Loads of places that do pack and play, stroller, crib, EVERYTHING rental at destinations.  Especially if it’s a bigger market.  It’s at least worth checking into.  

I was surprised at the convenience.  They’ll flat out meet you at baggage claim in airports with a rental Bob stroller, pack and play, and toys.  We personally don’t rent safety items like car seats, but that’s us. I haven’t checked specific FBO’S, but they’ll also meet for drop off or deliver to your VRBO.  Don’t see why an FBO would be any different?  (Obviously market dependent.)

Works great for commercial travel, if it’s available where you’re going it seems even more useful for GA folk.

[CharlesHuddleston]

We have had some grand adventures in our K. Took the family and our Cav, Lady, to the beach. My youngest sat right-seat, and did his homework. After departing Destin, and flying through the corridor, we got to watch some F35's take off from Eglin (talk about zoom!!!).

 

We also loaded up with my best friend and his girlfriend and went to the Bahamas for a week. 

They make great traveling machines. We always pack light, and after the pax and bags are weighed, fill the tanks. Honestly. my wife doesn't like to fly legs much longer than 3 hours, so for us, we have plenty of weight and usually plenty of gas to plan with! I have thoroughly enjoyed owning a Mooney, and look forward to continued travels!

[carusoam]

Great pics, Charles!

Best regards,

-a-

[Missile=Awesome]

Eagles are great, but at a significant price entry point vs. a Mid body Missile (that will still feel huge in comparison to a C)...1111 useful load.  Just something to consider vs. a 182 or Cherokee Six SUV.

[Niko182]

Just now, Missile=Awesome said:

Eagles are great, but at a significant price entry point vs. a Mid body Missile (that will still feel huge in comparison to a C)...1111 useful load.  Just something to consider vs. a 182 or Cherokee Six SUV.

If you dont mind me asking, what did you pick up the missile for?

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, Missile=Awesome said:

Eagles are great, but at a significant price entry point vs. a Mid body Missile (that will still feel huge in comparison to a C)...1111 useful load.  Just something to consider vs. a 182 or Cherokee Six SUV.

What's the payload of your Missile when loaded with 5 hours' fuel? That's 4 hours' flying plus reserve. My little C will go almost 600 nm in that time and carry 670 lb.  

I'm guessing you'd need 75-80 gal, call it 450 lb. So 1111 - 450 = 661 lb. But your plane runs 160 knots vs. my 148, which will save you ~4 gallons on that 600nm trip, so you will have an extra 24 lb payload if you fuel exactly, or 15 lb. more than my Little C . . . .  

Airplanes are all about the mission . . . . But yes, I'd still enjoy having a Missile!  

[Niko182]

35 minutes ago, Hank said:

What's the payload of your Missile when loaded with 5 hours' fuel? That's 4 hours' flying plus reserve. My little C will go almost 600 nm in that time and carry 670 lb.  

I'm guessing you'd need 75-80 gal, call it 450 lb. So 1111 - 450 = 661 lb. But your plane runs 160 knots vs. my 148, which will save you ~4 gallons on that 600nm trip, so you will have an extra 24 lb payload if you fuel exactly, or 15 lb. more than my Little C . . . .  

Airplanes are all about the mission . . . . But yes, I'd still enjoy having a Missile!  

A missile is more like 180 to 190 knots?

[ArtVandelay]

A missile is more like 180 to 190 knots?

The comparison gets worst as the trip gets longer, the O can do a 900nm trip without stopping, that saves 30 minutes right there, plus the extra speed.

[Hank]

6 hours ago, Niko182 said:

A missile is more like 180 to 190 knots?

At what fuel burn?

[kmyfm20s]

With just one kid pulling out the front seat is the best and safest thing to do. It makes getting in and out really easy with lots of area for legs, bags and changing.  I actually end up leaving it out most time. A mid body or long body would be the most comfortable. With a C and taking out the front seat you can put you travel stroller and pack & play up front and partially into the foot well just short of the rudder pedals. The front seat in my Eagle is 25 lbs and the back is 12.5 lbs so if removed you pick up more UL. 

Funny how a kid so small requires 4x the baggage as an adult!

We just flew up to Friday harbor in the San Juan Islands of Washington to see the orcas. Since all of California was on fire we flew all the way up the coast to avoid smoke. A lot of over water flying so in addition to baby stuff I had a raft and vest along. 

Before anyone gives me crap about the kid not having a headset on it is not that loud in my plane! He pulls it off when he’s moving around and we take our off to give our heads a rest all the time our selves. It less noisy than my Jeep on the freeway in the cabin!

My son loves to go in the plane!

[ArtVandelay]

That’s pretty quiet, I have noticed it’s quieter when plane is loaded, maybe more sound absorbing material.

[Missile=Awesome]

10 hours ago, Niko182 said:

If you dont mind me asking, what did you pick up the missile for?

About half what the asking price is on Controller. (For a pre-owned Ovation)

Edited September 11, 2020 by Missile=Awesome

[Missile=Awesome]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

At what fuel burn?

13gph

[Missile=Awesome]

6 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

The comparison gets worst as the trip gets longer, the O can do a 900nm trip without stopping, that saves 30 minutes right there, plus the extra speed.

13gph. 175-185knots. 98 gallons.  I like any comparison one wishes to serve up.

[Missile=Awesome]

9 hours ago, Niko182 said:

A missile is more like 180 to 190 knots?

175-185@13 to 13.5gph

[Missile=Awesome]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

What's the payload of your Missile when loaded with 5 hours' fuel? That's 4 hours' flying plus reserve. My little C will go almost 600 nm in that time and carry 670 lb.  

I'm guessing you'd need 75-80 gal, call it 450 lb. So 1111 - 450 = 661 lb. But your plane runs 160 knots vs. my 148, which will save you ~4 gallons on that 600nm trip, so you will have an extra 24 lb payload if you fuel exactly, or 15 lb. more than my Little C . . . .  

Airplanes are all about the mission . . . . But yes, I'd still enjoy having a Missile!  

Hank, You are way low on cruise speed.  175-185@13gph is what I am seeing.  The added space in a Midbody is nice and is what the original poster is looking for.  I loved my E.  The Missile is just more.  More room.  More Speed.  More Utility and yes More fuel burn.  I have found I don’t have to burn 15gph to have very nice cruise speed in our Missile.  My comparison was to give another data point to newer pre-owned Ovations.  Not quite as big for room, but bigger than a short body.  The smoothness of the six is a huge plus for me over the four cylinder.  The nose weight is a non-issue in my experience.  The price of exhaust/engine mount/prop are areas to be aware of.  Maintenance and operation are important.  As stated elsewhere, the “real deal” Ovation will always command more in price over a Missile as airframes are newer and they aren’t a conversion.

[Matt Ward]

I've traveled extensively in my E with my family for four, including cross country trips and many trips over the mountains of Colorado.  We're all fairly small folks (135 #, 120, 110, 85) but space isn't a problem.  We can carry about 50g of fuel if we want (although 3 to 3.5 hours is really a practical limit) and pack for hotels or camping.  We burn 8 - 8.5 gph and true out at about 144 knots at +10k feet.

My only watch-out is aft CG loading.  We've carried two paddleboards in the back with 4 pax over the mountains a few times and that's as far aft as I want to go.  I've never really *noticed* it, but being that close to the envelope gets my attention.  If you are willing to optimize (buy stuff that packs small, pack minimally, etc), there is really not a lot you can't do in an E.

Having said that, my buddy can put two bikes and two paddleboards in his A36 and that does make me jealous.

[MIm20c]

2 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

. 

Before anyone gives me crap about the kid not having a headset on it is not that loud in my plane! He pulls it off when he’s moving around and we take our off to give our heads a rest all the time our selves. It less noisy than my Jeep on the freeway in the cabin!

My son loves to go in the plane!

I’m amazed how quiet and smooth the Ovation is. It really makes long hops in comfort possible. I can absolutely travel twice as far in the O vs C and feel the same fatigue.  Sound insulation, higher quality AP, faster speeds, higher wing loading, etc. all add to the comfort. 
 

With smaller kids I absolutely feel the Ovation, A36, and pa46 are the pinnacle depending on family size and mission.

[kmyfm20s]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

That’s pretty quiet, I have noticed it’s quieter when plane is loaded, maybe more sound absorbing material.

84 dB backseat, 86 dB front seat, 90 dB in foot well next to fire wall.

[PMcClure]

I started flying when the kids were 6-9. I kept up with our family's total weight over the years in a spreadsheet. Early on, the total weight for all five of us was under 600 lbs. Now it is 1042lbs with new daughter in law.  No more Mooney family flying for us! For a brief time when we were 600-800lbs, the B36 worked out well. But eventually we out grew that and they got busy. Most of my flying was by myself and I told the B36 for the Ovation. Now it is just my wife and I going to visit the kids. I even took out one back seat so the golf clubs fit better. 

Baron, TBM or Pilatus is the only way I can do family flying from here on. But honestly, I doubt there will be many times when all of us could be on the plane at the same time. 

On the topic of car seats, we did use a booster seat for a little while. It helped the little ones see out better and the seat belt fit better across their hips. We put the forward rear seat passenger's shoulder strap behind them since it went across their neck.