So I just read all of the fatal M20F crash reports

[FloridaMan]

I can't sleep, and reading these isn't helping as I'm about to go look at an "F" model. It looks like nearly 1 in 10-12 of the M20Fs ended in a fatal accident. Amazingly, of the nearly 100 fatal crashes, only a couple of them were controlled off-airport landings that ended in fatalities, and I believe those were either far out over water or at night. Every other fatal accident involved a stall/spin or continued flight into IMC resulting in loss of control. 

What I get from this is that if I buy an M20F and have a problem, my odds are better if I don't try to make it to the best landing spot, just to maintain control and get it to the ground. 

ADDED: I'm going through the non-fatal crash reports and those make me feel a lot better as they almost all say "Uninjured" or "Minor" for severity. 

[M016576]

seems like that's the case with most of the GA crashes... it's normally a case of getting in over one's head, or being forced into a situation that the pilot isn't ready for....

[MooneyMitch]

I haven't done that much research but it sounds like many preventable fatalities. Flying into conditions above ones ability....what can I say? As far as the stall/spin, I am guessing that they all occurred turning base to final. We are told to fly our Mooneys "by the numbers" of 100/90/80. Good advice if the pattern is flown properly. Remember that in landing configuration with gear down and full flaps the stall speed jumps up to 89mph in a 60 degree bank. If the pattern is too tight and you force that turn to final with full flaps and slowing from 90 to 80...thats a bad recipe. I keep my patterns a little on the wider side to ensure that I will not be one of those stats.

[MooneyMitch]

I'm not Mitch..been having all sorts of issue today

Trey2398

[trey2398]

Testing...is this me now?

[Jeff_S]

Antares, I can't tell by your post if you're new to airplane ownership or just new to Mooney ownership. But the general wisdom holds true for pretty much all certificated aircraft. Stay within the airspeeds, keep the oily side down, and if you do have an engine problem, fly it all the way to crash site. If you keep control of the airplane to the last possible second you've got a good chance of walking away.

[Parker_Woodruff]

If I'm going to be in an aircraft accident in a single-engine piston, a Mooney is the plane I want to be in.  Every now and then you see one that's been in a really bad accident, yet the frame surrounding the occupant(s) is entirely intact.

[fantom]

Quote: Antares

I can't sleep, and reading these isn't helping as I'm about to go look at an "F" model. It looks like nearly 1 in 10-12 of the M20Fs ended in a fatal accident.

[Hank]

Quote: Mitch

 As far as the stall/spin, I am guessing that they all occurred turning base to final. We are told to fly our Mooneys "by the numbers" of 100/90/80. Good advice if the pattern is flown properly. Remember that in landing configuration with gear down and full flaps the stall speed jumps up to 89mph in a 60 degree bank. If the pattern is too tight and you force that turn to final with full flaps and slowing from 90 to 80...thats a bad recipe. I keep my patterns a little on the wider side to ensure that I will not be one of those stats.

[John Pleisse]

That seems normal... a 1 in 10 fatal rate, all in preventable scenarios involving proficiency which is controlable and manageable. Actually, one in ten is very good, comparably speaking. The F is a safe plane.

[Becca]

Flying a wider pattern is one of the things I am still getting used to, and I have over 300 hours in my aircraft.  The mantra about staying close to the field was drilled into me by my PPL and Instr. instructors, but I think it is a mistake in a Mooney.  In fact, I will go so far as to say it is a major mistake, because it puts you in the position of making steep turns at low speeds and altitudes.  The Mooney's glide ratio is way better than the Skyhawks or Warriors, you don't need to be right on top of the runway on downwind to be able to glide in, in the event of an engine failure.  And engine failures on landing are far less common than stall/spin accidents. 

[jlunseth]

Sorry Becca, another one of those mispost issues.

 

[M016576]

Quote: N4352H

That seems normal... a 1 in 10 fatal rate, all in preventable scenarios involving proficiency which is controlable and manageable. Actually, one in ten is very good, comparably speaking. The F is a safe plane.

[kris_adams]

This solves a lot of the crashes:

1) do not run out of gas

2) no controlled flight into terrain.  Just getting your instrument rating doesn't prevent this 100% (I am IR).  Amazing at how many people continue on when the weather gets too bad.  It's just not worth it.

3) fly the plane (as stated above).

Kris

N4679H

[thinwing]

unfortunately,the same aspect of our Mooneys that we are drawn to ,namely there speed,makes them (and bonanzas)less desirable in an off airport controlled crash.If it was my choice I would prefer to mush down at 35 or40 in a Maule,supercub or husky  with the same chrome/moly steel cage that we tout in our mooneys as being so crash worthy..its just the square of the velocity that you cant change no matter what you fly..kp couch

[Lood]

Agree with all above. It's actually very simple: Maintain thy airspeed, don't overshoot the turning points and and no steep turns while you're slow. Be ahead of your Mooney at all times.

[DaV8or]

I agree with the above and to add, beware the alure of the personal airline. You can use your Mooney to travel, you just can't adhere to airline type schedules. You can shoot for departure and arrival times, but you will need hours and sometimes days of flexibility built in to your plans. Gotta-get-there-itis has killed a lot of pilots (families too) and probably accounts for many of the flight into terrain and loss of control in IMC you read about. Don't be seduced by fancy equipment in the cockpit either. It's been proven that even the latest glass cockpits like the G1000 with GPS, terrain, weather and autopilots don't prevent pilots from crashing the same way they did in their Grandpappy's day. Good equipment is helpful, but only with training and practice.

[WardHolbrook]

Quote: Kris_Adams

This solves a lot of the crashes:

1) do not run out of gas

2) no controlled flight into terrain.  Just getting your instrument rating doesn't prevent this 100% (I am IR).  Amazing at how many people continue on when the weather gets too bad.  It's just not worth it.

3) fly the plane (as stated above).

Kris

N4679H

[scottfromiowa]

There in lies the rub Ward.  What is definition of common sense and stupid as it relates to aviation?  The guys that are sharp in the $%#* didn't wake up one morning with the knowledge and skill set to NOT be that guy.  While I agree with your "don'ts" 100% if you asked a guy or gal if they "have common sense" or if they do "stupid" things in the cockpit all would say "Oh no, not me".  It's always the other guy that does stupid things and has no common sense.  There is no such thing as common sense.  Experience is gained.  Some get in over their heads.  If they live and learn and gain experience they are wiser.  If not they "had no common sense" and they were stupid.

[Parker_Woodruff]

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[Parker_Woodruff]

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[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

Hi Ward, There - you said it.  In my opinion night flying makes most terrain hostile terrain since the black void below is very dangerous.  For the reason you state, which is what if you get an engine out - I generally avoid night flying just like I avoid flying over open expanses of water.  And I am very careful about which routes and altitudes (very high) I take through mountains with the same thing in mind in case I need to glide.

I am curious, how many of you folks avoid night flying? (In your single engine Mooney that is).  

[Hank]

Hmmm . . . parker's a popular guy today! But I'm me, and I fly my [single-engine] Mooney at night, from the Carolinas to WV and back. VFR with flight following, no problem; on an IFR flight plan, no problem. In IMC? Probably not, but it hasn't come up yet.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Hank

Hmmm . . . parker's a popular guy today! But I'm me, and I fly my [single-engine] Mooney at night, from the Carolinas to WV and back. VFR with flight following, no problem; on an IFR flight plan, no problem. In IMC? Probably not, but it hasn't come up yet.

[WardHolbrook]

Parker and Eric need to log out and log back in.