ipad chart options/rules

[rbridges]

I finally broke down and bought a bad elf for a first generation wifi ipad.  My primary goal is to put my sectionals and IFR plates on the ipad.  I figured the GPS part would be a bonus.  I'm only VFR now, but I'm planning to resume my instrument training when it gets a little cooler.

I realize there have been a ton of threads about ipad apps, but I wanted to know what's most simple and cost effective.  Also, do these digital copies meet the requirements for sectionals/charts needed for flight i.e. can I quit buying the paper copies and junking up my cockpit?

[BorealOne]

Foreflight is by far the best choice - preflight wx + planning, enroute and terminal charts, and GPS. Nothing else comes close. 

As to legalities, the current guidance seems to be:

AC 120-76a section ’1. Purpose’: “Other part 91 operations do not require any specific authorization for EFB operations provided the EFB does not replace any system or equipment required by the regulations.”

More on http://blog.foreflight.com/2010/05/08/ipad-aviation-aopa-and-fsdo-approval/

 

[rbridges]

thanks for the info

[danb35]

...and, to add to what the AC says, part 91 operations in light aircraft don't have any legal requirement for charts onboard the aircraft.  That is, you can have old charts, unofficial charts (e.g., state-published charts), hand-drawn charts, or no charts at all, and you're perfectly legal (with the exception of the Los Angeles SFRA, and possibly others).  Of course, if you have something other than a current FAA (or Jepp) chart and, as a result, do something stupid/dangerous/illegal, you'll get busted under 91.103 in addition to whatever else they might get.

I have Foreflight on my iPad, but haven't had a chance to fly with it yet.  It's great to have the whole country on a magazine-sized device, though.

[rbridges]

Quote: danb35

...and, to add to what the AC says, part 91 operations in light aircraft don't have any legal requirement for charts onboard the aircraft.  That is, you can have old charts, unofficial charts (e.g., state-published charts), hand-drawn charts, or no charts at all, and you're perfectly legal (with the exception of the Los Angeles SFRA, and possibly others).  

I didn't realize that.  I thought it was mandatory to have a current sectional to operate your plane.

[danb35]

Quote: rbridges

[carusoam]

Back in the day, outdated charts were a violation.

 

People were afraid to have them in the plane.

 

Overall a silly idea to throw away plan B.

 

FAA has a history of being slow, but sometimes moves in the right direction.

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[jetdriven]

That is funny. I won't throw out old charts, you never know when you might need them.

[panther1400]

Just got to use wingx for the first time today on a flight from Denver to Minnesota and I think it is great with the Skyradar, not saying foreflight isnt good but I started learning Wingx and love it so far. 

[carusoam]

Soon to be WingX fans,

 

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[rbridges]

I just did a 400 mile trip and used foreflight w/bad elf.  I don't have 3g on the ipad, so I downloaded the vfr sectionals for GA, NC and SC.  I absolutely loved it in comparison to the paper charts.  I could get airport information so much easier, and tracking the flight was great.  I have a 430, and this is a great supplement for it.

It would be great if I had 3g so that weather could be added.  Just from my limited use, I loved it.  My only gripe is that the screen is somewhat hard to read in the bright daylight. 

edit-I just found out that the ipad was set on the dimmest screen setting, so that may not be an issue next time.

[danb35]

3G reception in the air is spotty at best--you're going to want to look at XM or ADS-B for inflight wx.

[Immelman]

Quote: rbridges

I realize there have been a ton of threads about ipad apps, but I wanted to know what's most simple and cost effective.  Also, do these digital copies meet the requirements for sectionals/charts needed for flight i.e. can I quit buying the paper copies and junking up my cockpit?

[jlunseth]

rbridges-

There are two sliders for setting the brightness of Foreflight in your iPad.  One is in the Settings button of the iPad, and the other is in "Brightness & Wallpaper" in Foreflight.  The Foreflight instructions say you are supposed to reduce the setting in the iPad first, and then use the slider in Foreflight to reduce it further (for night ops).  But either one of the two will affect the brightness.  If you need yours full bright, just make sure both settings are full bright, or you will still be getting about half bright (which probably describes alot of us, but that's beside the point).

[jetdriven]

We have local charts in paper but the iPad is wondeful for an X-C trip, we were going to spend 250$ in paper charts for a houston-oshkosh-canada trip.  So we bought the iPad.

[jackn]

Just want to pass this along. I just bought 3G iPad2. 3G must be on to get GPS to work. Last week I shot two approaches in actual IFR. The GS wouldnt couple on either one. Over the weekend I shot a few more, this time with the iPad shut off, and everything worked fine. Today I shot another with the iPad on, GS wouldn't couple. I don't know whether it's the 3G or the WiFi that's interfering, as both were on. I fly with the KFC-150.

[jetdriven]

Hmm,   glideslope, or iPad with the approach plate, pick any one.       Can you put a bad elf on it in airplane mode and see what it does?

 

[jetdriven]

Hmm,   glideslope, or iPad with the approach plate, pick any one.       Can you put a bad elf on it in airplane mode and see what it does?

 

[carusoam]

JackN,

 

This seems to be a pretty important discovery.

 

Since the AP is not driven by an antenna, I would more suspect interference with the GS receiver.  Piloto and others will know more.

 

What do you have for a receiver?  Garmin 430/530?

 

I have a BK KX 165 coupled with a KAP 150 and have seen some less than perfect behavior.  Now I am wondering if I have seen something similar.

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[DrBill]

I suspect the 3G part of the IPAD. Probably overpowering the sensitive GS receiver.  You should be able to disable each radio in the IPAD separately like I can do with my IPOD Touch.  That will indicate which one is doing it.  THe 3G transmitter will vary power but peak at about 7 watts.  Being shielded in your cabin is probably makeing it pump out the power to get to a tower. I don't fly wiht my cell phone on in IMC for that reason.

Dr. Bill

BTW Wireless is my specialty...

[carusoam]

Wireless Dr. Bill now brings up another important detail...

 

Could be the cell phone doing the deed as well....

 

Now i have some flight testing to do....

 

Best regards,

 

-a-

[scottfromiowa]

I used my wifes IPad II with Wing X Pro.  The 3 g is NOT I repeat NOT enabled and the GPS function in the IPAD worked flawlessly.  You do NOT have to have the 3g enabled in the Ipad II to have functional GPS...

[carusoam]

Ipad1 test

 

Wifi -off

Cellular data (3G) -off

 

GPS still works

 

Airplane mode - on

 

GPS not available with airplane mode on.

 

Probably a good idea to turn off wifi prior to flight.  It is my understanding that some battery power is required to keep searching for wifi connection.

 

Quick review...

Turning airplane mode on, kills 3G, wifi and gps receiver.  Leaving airplane mode off, and turning off wifi and/or 3G leaves the GPS receiver operational.

 

Overall the airplane mode was a wishful attempt to allow us to use iPads during take off and landing phases of commercial flight.  Continental is uninterested in how great my electronic device is, it is still an electronic device with a switch.   Unfortunately the internal GPS can't keep up very well with such small airliner windows....

 

Best regards,

 

-a- 

[jetdriven]

is this also true with a bad elf? Or does the wireless need to be on to enable that as well?  I have a iPad 2 wifi and it works great with the bad elf.

[jackn]

Thanks Carusoam. You are correct. Still getting to know the iPad, I like it on my lap, but its too big on the yoke.