How to fly in class B airspace after 1/1 with no adsb out

[nels]

My plane is not adsb compliant at this time. My birthday is in January and I will be hitting the big 70.  As some of the older crowd might realize, at age 70.5 it is a requirement to start withdrawing from your retirement nest egg. My thought has been to improve my avionics with retirement money but retirement money that has been withdrawn at the appropriate time...which is after this coming January 1st. There will be some delay between the purchase and install date so I would like to fly during that time period. My plane is hangared within class B airspace at a non towered airport. From what I’ve read and tried to digest, I can fly but will need permission each time I go up and assume when I return. Anyone have a good idea on how this will be handled? I’m sure there are plenty of guys out there with the same question.

[jlunseth]

All you need is ADSB out, in other words a Mode S transponder with a GPS source, or built in GPS.  I put in a KT 74 a few years ago for 3500 installed. Its mostly a slide in replacement for the old Kings.  There are quite a few solutions out there, including those with a built in GPS if your aircraft does not already have one.  

Otherwise, you will need to obtain a clearance to fly in the affected airspace at least one hour before.  That is separate from an IFR clearance and there is a list of Bravos where a clearance will supposedly be difficult if possible at all.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2019/04/09/faa-issues-policy-for-flying-without-ads-b-after-2020/

[steingar]

I’ve flown through the veil of a Bravo without Mode C. Before the flight I contacted the controlling agency for the area and explained my request, and in the air I gave Approach control a radio call. They were able to follow me on primary radar. It should actually not be as big a deal, since presumably you still have Mode C and can squawk a code.

[N201MKTurbo]

You need to get a wavier from TRACON. They have never denied me one when I asked. In all cases it was because I had broken equipment. If you try to do it as normal operation, they may lose their sense of humor. They have no obligation to give it to you. After they get to know you, they will probably be to busy whenever you ask.

[gsxrpilot]

It's not 2020 yet. I expect we'll find out in Jan.

[carusoam]

Nels,

Congrats!

This might be more of a tax question... maybe...

See if @Danb can give insight to the scheduling of , or proper recording of the mandatory withdrawals... from the nest egg...

 

If you have a WAAS source already, things just got easier...

You may be the first guy to schedule ADSB installation after the deadline...

Good luck and best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

Nels you can delay your withdrawals until the year after you turn 70.5 and continue thereafter. Therefore if you’d like to keep your pp intact you can effectively wait until the year 2021 assuming your turning 70.5 in 2020. 

[nels]

10 hours ago, jlunseth said:

All you need is ADSB out, in other words a Mode S transponder with a GPS source, or built in GPS.  I put in a KT 74 a few years ago for 3500 installed. Its mostly a slide in replacement for the old Kings.  There are quite a few solutions out there, including those with a built in GPS if your aircraft does not already have one.  

Otherwise, you will need to obtain a clearance to fly in the affected airspace at least one hour before.  That is separate from an IFR clearance and there is a list of Bravos where a clearance will supposedly be difficult if possible at all.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2019/04/09/faa-issues-policy-for-flying-without-ads-b-after-2020/

I have no gps in the plane right now. I have my eye on the gnx375 which will cover plenty of the slots I’d like to cover. As for the one hour waiting, I think that applies to commercial type carriers not so much the casual pilot, but I’m uncertain of that as there is lots of verbiage to wade through. I believe the Bravo airspace that will be difficult is places like Chicago O’Hare. That one was specifically called out and falls into their category of one running at 80% or more of capacity. CVG, the airspace I am dealing with, isn’t anywhere close to 80% so their load isn’t difficult.

 

[nels]

46 minutes ago, Danb said:

Nels you can delay your withdrawals until the year after you turn 70.5 and continue thereafter. Therefore if you’d like to keep your pp intact you can effectively wait until the year 2021 assuming your turning 70.5 in 2020. 

Dan, that’s good to know. I don’t think I need to wait until 2021 but it might be good to only take out what I spend on the upgrade and then hold the rest back until 2021. I assume if I would hold back until 2021 before withdrawal I would need to withdraw the total of 2020 and 2021for the 2021 tax year? Right now I’m just looking at getting the adsb and maybe a little more without taking money from my previously taxed savings. 

[tmo]

Side note, the BK KT74 is a rebadged Trig TT31...  I think there was one for sale here recently.

[jlunseth]

Hmh, I am no expert on the RMD requirements, but isn’t it the case that you can defer the withdrawal until the year following the year in which you turn 70.5, but that year, must make two withdrawals, one for the particular year and one for the prior year in which you turned 70.5? Doesn’t seem to be much advantage to that, you will likely pay at a higher tax rate for at least a portion of the “double withdrawal.”

[Davidv]

This is easy, just turn your transponder off before you leave the ground...

[Jerry 5TJ]

13 hours ago, nels said:

From what I’ve read and tried to digest, I can fly but will need permission each time I go up and assume when I return. Anyone have a good idea on how this will be handled? 

Nobody seems to know.
But we are curious.  
 

[ArtVandelay]

Hmh, I am no expert on the RMD requirements, but isn’t it the case that you can defer the withdrawal until the year following the year in which you turn 70.5, but that year, must make two withdrawals, one for the particular year and one for the prior year in which you turned 70.5? Doesn’t seem to be much advantage to that, you will likely pay at a higher tax rate for at least a portion of the “double withdrawal.”

Technically it’s April 1st of the following year you turn 70.5, and yes it could cause a spike in taxes, including additional taxes on your social security.


Tom

[nels]

18 minutes ago, Davidv said:

This is easy, just turn your transponder off before you leave the ground...

I like that! Don’t know if it’s legal.

[nels]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Technically it’s April 1st of the following year you turn 70.5, and yes it could cause a spike in taxes, including additional taxes on your social security.


Tom

Pretty sure it would keep the spike out of your Medicare for the one year?

[Davidv]

To avoid this questionably legal activity, I had a GNX375 installed.  Yes, skybeacon is cheaper but it gave me everything I needed for in/out/traffic/weather/LPV approaches...

[jaylw314]

21 minutes ago, nels said:

I like that! Don’t know if it’s legal.

It's not.  I can't recall the reference, but you're required to keep any transponder on at all times unless on the request of ATC or if it's inoperative.

[Davidv]

Definitely not legal in the 30 mile veil.

[Bob - S50]

Here's one article about clearance after January first:  General Aviation News

And here is the FAA policy they put out in 2019. 2019 FAA Policy 

It's long but it essentially says they will only grant permission if they aren't busy so don't count on approval.

As for the RMD, I agree that if I wait until the year after I turn 70.5 (2024) I will have to make withdrawals for 2023 and 2024 and get a big spike in taxes and increased Medicare cost.  That's especially true since my wife and I will both be taking Social Security by then.  Since we are both retired we are currently taking money from our IRA's for living expenses.  In order to minimize taxes 10 or more years down the road, each year I try to move money from my IRA to my Roth IRA.  Pay taxes now to avoid taxes later.  I try to manage our withdrawals so that the money we use to live on plus the money I transfer to my Roth IRA keeps us under the point at which we would have to pay increased Medicare premiums.  That's about $174,000 for a married couple.  I try to keep it under $165,000 just in case we have unexpected extra income.

[ArtVandelay]

Pretty sure it would keep the spike out of your Medicare for the one year?

Maybe, you’d have to run the numbers. There was a bill introduced that would raise the age to 72. But congress wasn’t able to get itself organize and have effectively done nothing for the past 2 years, too busy fighting with the president.


Tom

[Danb]

1 hour ago, jlunseth said:

Hmh, I am no expert on the RMD requirements, but isn’t it the case that you can defer the withdrawal until the year following the year in which you turn 70.5, but that year, must make two withdrawals, one for the particular year and one for the prior year in which you turned 70.5? Doesn’t seem to be much advantage to that, you will likely pay at a higher tax rate for at least a portion of the “double withdraw

good point about the effect the income has on future Medicare costs, time for a spreadsheet to determine the best withdrawal method for tax purposes, especially when one spouse works and the other doesn’t. I believe the Medicare premium will be for two years but I’m not sure without looking it up. I believe I messed mine up a few years ago and was stuck with the higher premium for two years. We need to make the system more difficult to comprehend 

[jlunseth]

1 hour ago, Danb said:

We need to make the system more difficult to comprehend 

Yes, I think we should especially do so for seniors who have fixed incomes and can't afford to hire professional advisors to figure it all out for them.  That would be a step in the right direction. 

[kortopates]

About flying after 1-1-2020 - google Mooneyspace for thread about last April timeframe that discusses the FAA website to request authorization for a single flight at a time. Yep, the FAA is providing a website since they expect a lot of request. Who knows how easy the process will be because the FAA has stated they will not allow people to repeatedly fly without ADS/B and the exceptions via their website are intended for pilots to fly with a broken or in-op transponder or ADS/B for re-positioning for repairs or for installation of Ads/B - not for a postponing compliance. But we really don't know how they'll enforce that intent till they do.

[MooneyMitch]

42 minutes ago, kortopates said:

About flying after 1-1-2020 - google Mooneyspace for thread about last April timeframe that discusses the FAA website to request authorization for a single flight at a time. Yep, the FAA is providing a website since they expect a lot of request. Who knows how easy the process will be because the FAA has stated they will not allow people to repeatedly fly without ADS/B and the exceptions via their website are intended for pilots to fly with a broken or in-op transponder or ADS/B for re-positioning for repairs or for installation of Ads/B - not for a postponing compliance. But we really don't know how they'll enforce that intent till they do.

We’ll all know very soon !!