Mooney factory is open 12/2/19

[Cargil48]

8 minutes ago, INA201 said:

I have a thought on this J possibility. (...)  Let's also say that a tip to tail refurbishment can be completed for $125k more.  (...) 

The N205J programm shows one needs $200k for that. 

[MooneyMitch]

I have to comment here on the concept of Mooney factory refurbishment of older Mooney airplanes.  Some of you may be aware that.............In a land, far, far away..... in a previous lifetime...... from a long, long time ago (at least twice removed) and from a distant Mooney regime, there were Mooney suits that were openly considering the refurbishment program.

Would the Chinese, another investor(s), a new owner with tons and tons of money to burn,  or a combination thereof consider this?  Only the Shadow knows!

Do I like it?  Without a doubt, yes!!

Versatility in helping the Mooney brand to continue.....keeping the workers working.......it’s all positive.  Is it a dream only? 

Is it economical feasible? Is there a market for such?  Would you consider one?

[tmo]

45 minutes ago, Cargil48 said:

The N205J programm shows one needs $200k for that. 

Yes, but they went G500 and so on, now there are less expensive but still quite capable options available.  Perhaps wouldn't save $75k, but probably a good amount.

A bit could be made selling what's left over, but that would likely be chunk change in the grand scheme of things.

[steingar]

I think they could do specific refurbishment projects and make some money, though not enough to keep the lights on in that place.  I recall a shop somewhere doing a total refurbishment of a Cessna Skyhawk.  What I recall is it didn't end all that satisfactorily for the refurbishes.  Folks just don't want to pay those kinds of prices for old airframes.

The whole "they should build a new J for $XXXX" is just absurd.  I bet a J has just as many parts and takes just as long to make as an Ultra.  It'd be a bit cheaper since they could go with a I0360 instead of whatever is in the Ultra, a couple fewer cylinders would be cheaper.  But that only saves you do much.  The cost of the Mooney isn't the raw materials, it's all the handiwork that goes into it.

A pity they didn't get the M10 straight.  That really could be a game changer for them if they could get something into the training market.

[Bob_Belville]

The factory was closed, maybe for good this time.

And now it’s open...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[flyer338]

Maybe I should buy a back spring clutch kit? I am certain to need one, and there is a karmic effect from having it on hand that should delay that day.

[Parker_Woodruff]

If you want a nice refurbish deal, it seems a lot of them are coming out of Longview these days.

[cliffy]

Back to marketing-

Have 2 airplanes flying around the country to every fly-in, cook out, airport day, what ever, that people gather at airports. People like airplanes but ya gotta be there to show it off for the leads and generate interest. Cirrus did that in the beginning. Make the pilots salesmen and they can make money doing this (Cirrus again)  

Get a decent website and have immediate communications on same. If you don't have a good website you ain't in business! Phone/web sales could be on commission to cut costs.

At big fly-ins (AOPA, EAA) flush what they have (its lousy, non-communicative and poorly staffed) and do it right. (I've got experience at large functions like that and we NEVER acted like they did. I know of one buyer a couple years ago with money in hand for a new Mooney and he walked away with the money in his pocket due to the reception he got at EAA) There's one of their LOST SALES!

Trainer? They can design a stiff leg Mooney with very little extra drag. Might even save money, save on insurance, lighter weight, etc. Short, mid, long? I'll bet the fuselage is near the same manufacturing cost but now with 2 doors, fixed gear, lighter avionics and a lighter engine, it might just make a crossover trainer/first family Mooney. Not everyone needs five big screen TVs in their cockpit

For God sakes,  design a decent paint job or 2 for the print advertising. The one they have been showing sucks big time.

Design a good "Honda" interior for it (you don't need a Bugatti) and move out with sales. 

Show some people and families having a good time with their Mooney.

Have someone doing a vlog on utube every week with a different mission to show what you can do in a Mooney. No one does this right now. Get with a facebook and utube following to generate interest, No one does this. Social media the next stop and have merch to hand out. Leave something at every FBO! Have a prize at every fly-in or gathering. 

 

Now, in the big picture? We don't know what their plans are. Are they even interested in selling airplanes? Have they made that a corporate statement?  Is that their goal? What do we really know? We are all going on our own suppositions right now. Communications still sucks for the buying public. 

[EricJ]

40 minutes ago, cliffy said:

For God sakes,  design a decent paint job or 2 for the print advertising. The one they have been showing sucks big time.

This has annoyed me as well.   I think there's some marketing 101 that was really lost on Mooney for whatever reason.    They have only one product; it had better look good inside, out, and present well.   It just didn't.   I think the long bodies look a little weird, anyway, and the paint schemes didn't help.  Just imho.

[MooneyMitch]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

   “I think the long bodies look a little weird, anyway, ........”

BLASPHEMY!!!!   

[MooneyMitch]

A thing of beauty!!

[Cargil48]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

Back to marketing-

(...)

Trainer? They can design a stiff leg Mooney with very little extra drag. Might even save money, save on insurance, lighter weight, etc. Short, mid, long? I'll bet the fuselage is near the same manufacturing cost but now with 2 doors, fixed gear, lighter avionics and a lighter engine, it might just make a crossover trainer/first family Mooney. Not everyone needs five big screen TVs in their cockpit

(..)

I beg your permission to question this. Why? Because of one simple question: What is the need to spend hiuge amounts of money to develop and certify a Mooney with fixed gear?? Because of the insurance? Let me put it my way: Is there any model to teach the guys who want to buy a Ferrari or a Lambo to train them on the driving? What is there so different in piloting a Mooney from, say, a Piper Arrow?? First: Retractable gear. As I said already, that point should be fire burned in the brains of every Mooney pilot! You pilot a Mooney? Then you know several things: One of them is that you are piloting a retractable. Period.

The other point I guess needs to be trained is the landing. Everyone knows the threshold speed is somewhere about 80 to 85 knots, nose slightly up. So, if you buy a Mooney (new or used) get a certified training pilot to do one hour of training of this specific part of your flight. Period. What do you need a specific "trainer" for??

Edited December 4, 2019 by Cargil48
typo

[Cargil48]

And now only for the beauty of it... (Reg altered)

[MooneyMitch]

1 minute ago, Cargil48 said:

And now only for the beauty of it... (Reg altered)

Truly !!

[Cargil48]

This is the model I started a new Mooney company with, if I had the financial means for it (as so many US citizen have...). Short fuselage two adults, one or two child seats behind them and an injected 200/210 hp four cylinder in front. Analogue instruments with some smaller electronic flight displays for IFR navigation. With this model (the E, or if you wanted so, call it the "Chap Two") made out of composites, you'd have a "pure blood" Mooney but one you could use for the so-called "training purposes" as well. Be it flying a Mooney, or be it getting your IFR rating, transitioning from analog displays to "glass cockpit".

Edited December 4, 2019 by Cargil48

[Marauder]

Well, I guess I'm thinking of the 10000-odd customers who currently own a Mooney aircraft (and who are likely current or future parts and service customers).  Those of us who have a clear, vested interest in the future of the company.

In my 28 years of owning a Mooney, how many parts do you think I sourced from Mooney? Very, very few. I bought a static drain from Lasar a few years ago that came from Mooney and the yoke retrofit kit back in 1998.

The reality is most parts are common parts or those that a Reaper salvaged. Look how active the Reaper’s business is. I doubt the factory has many vintage parts in stock. And if they did, how many of you Cheap Bast&$ds will pay their premium?

Speaking of the yoke retrofit kit. Someone posted the price of the kit. It was over $6,000 for two yokes, shafts and paperwork. How many of the 14 guys I sent the blueprints actually bought the kit from Mooney? My guess: 0

I do know at least one got salvaged parts from Alan.

Unfortunately, Mooney’s business model has been always a big question mark. I would love to see a refurbishment program and other reasonably price upgrade kits (like the dorsal fin). The likelihood of me spending $800k on a new plane is close to nil.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

The N205J programm shows one needs $200k for that. 

Dan’s J (N205J) is an enigma. He owns SureFlight and has access to an avionics, interior, maintenance and paint shop. If I were to fly over and say, “hey Dan make my Mooney into a copy of your’s”, I’m sure I’d need to put my house up for sale.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[toto]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

 

In my 28 years of owning a Mooney, how many parts do you think I sourced from Mooney? Very, very few. 

 

I may be in the minority here, but I think it should matter to Mooney that there are a bunch of customers out there who own their products. The fact that an individual owner hasn't purchased parts from the factory should be seen by Mooney as a business challenge (and potentially a business opportunity). But it certainly shouldn't be a reason not to have factory reps keep an open line of communication with the MS community. 

[Tim Jodice]

4 hours ago, cliffy said:

Back to marketing-

Have 2 airplanes flying around the country to every fly-in, cook out, airport day, what ever, that people gather at airports. People like airplanes but ya gotta be there to show it off for the leads and generate interest. Cirrus did that in the beginning.

Cirrus still does that today.

[Marauder]

I may be in the minority here, but I think it should matter to Mooney that there are a bunch of customers out there who own their products. The fact that an individual owner hasn't purchased parts from the factory should be seen by Mooney as a business challenge (and potentially a business opportunity). But it certainly shouldn't be a reason not to have factory reps keep an open line of communication with the MS community. 

Unfortunately that’s the catch. We are not flying “their” products. Today’s Mooney Corporation has, what, maybe 20 customers? What we are to the current Mooney Corporation owners is a liability. We are the customers of American Electronic Laboratories, Butler Aviation, Republic Steel, Morrison Group, Advanced Aerodynamics and several others that I forgot about.

I agree with you that their customer centricity is non-existent. You would think in all my years as a Mooney owner I’d get a letter from Mooney asking “want to check out our new plane?”

I think Stacey from Mooney has been on MooneySpace a few times. Other than that, nada.

Their situation is sad. They are in a competitive market and from what I can tell, have a poor approach to business. Just do the math on their total sales under the current ownership. Their margins have to be pretty slim.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Bravoman]

6 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

In my 28 years of owning a Mooney, how many parts do you think I sourced from Mooney? Very, very few. I bought a static drain from Lasar a few years ago that came from Mooney and the yoke retrofit kit back in 1998.

The reality is most parts are common parts or those that a Reaper salvaged. Look how active the Reaper’s business is. I doubt the factory has many vintage parts in stock. And if they did, how many of you Cheap Bast&$ds will pay their premium?

Speaking of the yoke retrofit kit. Someone posted the price of the kit. It was over $6,000 for two yokes, shafts and paperwork. How many of the 14 guys I sent the blueprints actually bought the kit from Mooney? My guess: 0

I do know at least one got salvaged parts from Alan.

Unfortunately, Mooney’s business model has been always a big question mark. I would love to see a refurbishment program and other reasonably price upgrade kits (like the dorsal fin). The likelihood of me spending $800k on a new plane is close to nil.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

It’s way more than 800k by the time you are out the door. And if I had that kind of scratch to spend on a plane it would be a used TBM or Meridian.

[DXB]

7 hours ago, Cargil48 said:

And now only for the beauty of it... (Reg altered)

OMG that’s gorgeous. A kind of sinister beauty, like a stiletto dagger.  Darth  Vader’s E model? 

[Cargil48]

6 hours ago, DXB said:

OMG that’s gorgeous. A kind of sinister beauty, like a stiletto dagger.  Darth  Vader’s E model? 

Correct!... Now imagine this beauty reborn in composite construction, for 2 adults and 2 kids (or lots of baggage) as the "short version" of a new line of Mooneys! Priced somewhere between $550-$600 with an injected 220hp engine and built-in O2 system...

Edited December 5, 2019 by Cargil48
adding a comment

[steingar]

3 hours ago, Cargil48 said:

Correct!... Now imagine this beauty reborn in composite construction, for 2 adults and 2 kids (or lots of baggage) as the "short version" of a new line of Mooneys! Priced somewhere between $550-$600 with an injected 220hp engine and built-in O2 system...

Fantasy.  Composite construction has to be designed, engineered, prototypes, and certificated.  Big money.  Think about it this  way.  Two companies started out making composite 4 seat certificated aircraft.  Only one of them is still around.  It isn't easy.

[tmo]

Last I checked one could still buy a DA40, not just a SR22.  Or a P2010 if you're willing to allow mixed construction (cf + metal) in the equation.