GARMIN DEVELOPS AUTOLAND SYSTEM

[HRM]

The fun is coming to an end boys.

https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Media/All-News/2020/January/Pilot/hands-off?utm_source=ebrief&utm_medium=email

[kortopates]

See “Mooney’s answer to the chute” thread.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited October 30, 2019 by kortopates

[HRM]

I just saw that thread...I assumed it was actually a chute and Garmin Autoland is not out for Mooney anyway.

Of course, here we see two different perspectives.

          1) Garmin Autoland as safety chute replacement (think on that for a minute, the engine can be dead and a chute will save you better than an autopilot).

          2) The self-flying airplane--where's the fun in that?

I have said for years that getting an airplane off the ground is fairly easy, flying it around is even easier, but landing it, now there's where we separate the pilots from the barefoot bandits.

[Gagarin]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

See “Mooney’s answer to the chute” thread.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But a good set of human eyes will let you know of a cow a bull or turtle crossing the runway.

[carusoam]

Anyone seen the barefoot bandit lately?

-a-

[DAVIDWH]

Already have yaw dampner and ESP And  was hoping for autothrottle.

Now Autoland, I am beginning to feel a little insignificant.

 

[Browncbr1]

Cirrus is sending out marketing emails claiming that “cirrus” developed this technology, not garmin.  

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

Cirrus is sending out marketing emails claiming that “cirrus” developed this technology, not garmin.  

Cirrus is wrong

[Browncbr1]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

Cirrus is wrong

Oh yea, I know.  Their marketing department is shameless.  

[Jerry 5TJ]

Interesting to see that Garmin has a patent  pending for the system, filing date 2017.  

The first new M600 SLS were delivered in August & new owners pledged to keep their planes if not secret at least low-profile until the official release.  

Piper says ‘certain’ earlier M600 may be offered a retrofit kit.  Kit price hinted to be in the $170K range. 

[aviatoreb]

3 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Cirrus is wrong

Cirrus makes a fine airplane.  And they have a successful marketing program for sure.  But I find many of their marketing statements to be false, or sometimes literally true but misleading so that they are technically true but what is intended to convey is false.

[HRM]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

Anyone seen the barefoot bandit lately?

-a-

Colton Harris-Moore hopes to leave the ‘Barefoot Bandit’ moniker behind

By Jason Rantz Show
May 13, 2019 at 6:00 am

Colton Harris-Moore asked a U.S. District Court judge in April to end his federal probation four months early so that he can become a motivational speaker. (KTTH image)

Colton Harris-Moore has left the “Barefoot Bandit” moniker behind, and he says he’s been on the right path for months after his release from a nearly seven-year jail term.

That jail term followed a string of thefts and burglaries, and included teaching himself to steal and fly multiple aircraft.

Now he’s asking the judge to be let off of probation early, with only four months remaining. Harris-Moore joined the Jason Rantz Show on KTTH to discuss his checkered past and what he hopes to do in the near future.

“It’s been nearly 10 years since all this started,” he said. “Every bit of time counts and my goal is to take back my life and regain my freedom, and if I can do that four months early, I’m going to do that.”

Colton Harris-Moore says he’s been building relationships and working on several projects, including potentially becoming a motivational speaker.

[Air pirate]

3 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Cirrus makes a fine airplane.  And they have a successful marketing program for sure.  But I find many of their marketing statements to be false, or sometimes literally true but misleading so that they are technically true but what is intended to convey is false.

Marketing Director must have been a political campaign manager

[HRM]

3 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

But I find many of their marketing statements to be false, or sometimes literally true but misleading so that they are technically true but what is intended to convey is false.

The former is litigation fodder, the latter smart(?) marketing.

What's amusing to me is the audience. You can tell a lot about an audience watching the commercials for a TV show. One would think that the potential buyers of a half-million+ aircraft would be highly educated and easily able to read through nonsense. Then there was the V-35 "Doctor Killer"....<sigh>.

[aviatoreb]

18 minutes ago, Air pirate said:

Marketing Director must have been a political campaign manager

I figure its almost the either way around - a political campaign manager is essentially a marketing director - selling a product for their boss no matter what it takes - truth be darned.

[aviatoreb]

7 minutes ago, HRM said:

The former is litigation fodder, the latter smart(?) marketing.

What's amusing to me is the audience. You can tell a lot about an audience watching the commercials for a TV show. One would think that the potential buyers of a half-million+ aircraft would be highly educated and easily able to read through nonsense. Then there was the V-35 "Doctor Killer"....<sigh>.

On this topic of Cirrus marketing - I was showing a new student pilot on the field my airplane since he asked and he is nice - 3 hours under his belt already.  Then he started talking about Cirrus and he rattled off several of the marketing items for Cirrus, verbatim, including on I know to be in that category of essentially false but semantically true so as to protect from lawsuits.

[jaylw314]

31 minutes ago, HRM said:

The former is litigation fodder, the latter smart(?) marketing.

What's amusing to me is the audience. You can tell a lot about an audience watching the commercials for a TV show. One would think that the potential buyers of a half-million+ aircraft would be highly educated and easily able to read through nonsense. Then there was the V-35 "Doctor Killer"....<sigh>.

I'd say most of the doctors I know are completely incapable of interpreting the studies they base their decisions on, so no, I don't have problems believing many of them would get in over their heads with the V35...

[RobertGary1]

I don't see this as too much more than a novelty. Its not the same as Cessna's ESP system that simply takes over the plane to right itself. I see the value in that. This is specifically targeted to those who think they may die while flying and want someone to push the button. I could see a few new planes coming with this as a marketing thing (like Cirrus) but I don't see many people wanting to pay extra for it.

 

-Robert

[HRM]

15 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I don't see this as too much more than a novelty. Its not the same as Cessna's ESP system that simply takes over the plane to right itself. I see the value in that. This is specifically targeted to those who think they may die while flying and want someone to push the button. I could see a few new planes coming with this as a marketing thing (like Cirrus) but I don't see many people wanting to pay extra for it.

 

-Robert

Exactly! That's why I was thrown off by the 'chute' thread--a completely different thing. In fact, from what I understand, activation of the ballistic chutes in these things is complicated and if the pilot is down the PAX may not be able to activate it or may activate it at the wrong time.

My tongue-in-cheek point was that we are not far from completely self-flying GA, and where's the fun in that? 

[thinwing]

19 hours ago, HRM said:

Colton Harris-Moore hopes to leave the ‘Barefoot Bandit’ moniker behind

By Jason Rantz Show
May 13, 2019 at 6:00 am

Colton Harris-Moore asked a U.S. District Court judge in April to end his federal probation four months early so that he can become a motivational speaker. (KTTH image)

Colton Harris-Moore has left the “Barefoot Bandit” moniker behind, and he says he’s been on the right path for months after his release from a nearly seven-year jail term.

That jail term followed a string of thefts and burglaries, and included teaching himself to steal and fly multiple aircraft.

Now he’s asking the judge to be let off of probation early, with only four months remaining. Harris-Moore joined the Jason Rantz Show on KTTH to discuss his checkered past and what he hopes to do in the near future.

“It’s been nearly 10 years since all this started,” he said. “Every bit of time counts and my goal is to take back my life and regain my freedom, and if I can do that four months early, I’m going to do that.”

Colton Harris-Moore says he’s been building relationships and working on several projects, including potentially becoming a motivational speaker.

Now he can big bucks as “motivational “ speaker and pay back the restitution he was ordered by the court

[ilovecornfields]

17 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I don't see this as too much more than a novelty. Its not the same as Cessna's ESP system that simply takes over the plane to right itself. I see the value in that. This is specifically targeted to those who think they may die while flying and want someone to push the button. I could see a few new planes coming with this as a marketing thing (like Cirrus) but I don't see many people wanting to pay extra for it.

 

-Robert

I think it depends on the price. Let’s say you have a stroke or seizure while flying (even by yourself but especially with your family on board). Might be nice to have the plane land itself. I’ve certainly seen enough people become suddenly incapacitated while driving so as they say...the life you save may be your own.

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

I think it depends on the price. Let’s say you have a stroke or seizure while flying (even by yourself but especially with your family on board). Might be nice to have the plane land itself. I’ve certainly seen enough people become suddenly incapacitated while driving so as they say...the life you save may be your own.

When did this happen? I still need to see the NTSB statistics before I believe this is a problem. Now if you said the FAA will allow you to fly that plane with no medical I could maybe see the advantage.

-Robert

[ilovecornfields]

When did it happen? It happens all the time. I had a friend that was flying on his company’s PC-12 when the pilot had a seizure. There was a pilot-rated passenger in the front seat who landed the plane but I’m sure autoland would have been nice to have if that hadn’t been the case.

Here are the statistics on incapacitation while driving a motor vehicle. In fatal GA accidents it seems it’s often difficult to tell if the pilot was incapacitated before impact so I’m not sure there are reliable numbers out there.

[tmo]

On 10/31/2019 at 6:41 PM, aviatoreb said:

But I find many of their marketing statements to be false, or sometimes literally true but misleading so that they are technically true but what is intended to convey is false.

So like the Mooney speeds advertised back in the day? :-) Hey, they learned from the best!

[aviatoreb]

7 minutes ago, tmo said:

So like the Mooney speeds advertised back in the day? :-) Hey, they learned from the best!

No - like "Cirrus says there has never been a fatality in which a CAPS deployment was attempted within the normal envelope"

This sounds as if they are saying it always works.  I read that they have conveniently removed from their statistics the occasions when it did not work so I read a circular statement that is designed to say "it always works when it works".  I am not just being pedantic.  In my professional life as a scientist - if I ever saw a paper coming across my desk for review that made such a misleading statement with statistics, deliberately throwing out those data points which did not support their desire story, then it would rightly need to be rejected as dishonest.  There have been many occasions when it was deployed and it was unsuccessful for various reasons that Cirrus sales department has conveniently swept under the rug with the statement "normal envelope" in an attempt to make that statement seem invisible and make us forget they exist.  

This is not just dishonest for sales, but I think it slightly increases risk since it gives the impression to those owners that the parachute is better than it is as a get out of jail free card.  It is clearly best used when a pilot flies cautiously as if they do not have a parachute and then only resorts to parachute if needed. - this is a whole different kind of dishonest than claiming the cruise speed is a tad higher than it really is.  Or claiming cruise speed based on an airplane that is on minimum fuel, no antennas, and extra light and on high power.  I was speaking to a 3 hour new student pilot earlier this week who was speaking about the cirrus claim, correctly repeated it verbatim as above, but then proceeded to describe it as if it never fails.  The very mistake as intended by the sales department when they carefully crafted the misleading statement.

The parachute is clearly a good thing, so I think this is a dishonest attempt to double speak claim it is perfect.