New panel design M20J

[Scott Aviation]

Hey guys, here’s my plan C.  All components purchased and ready for install. Just wanted to get some feedback before I send the panel file for laser cutting.  Note I have 77J so radio stack height with depth is issue. That’s why they are shown lower down.  You’ll note my work around to the asi, alt and vsi maintained in dash per G5 stc but if that changes down the road they can be easily removed.  
dual G5’s

stec 30 with gad29b

gad13

gnc355

pma450B

kx155 gs

kt-76( no Ads-b mandate in Canada yet)

dual cgr30p/c with cies floats 
Guardian iPad mini mount running foreflight which will push flight plans to gnc-355   I have thought really hard about what I need to fly ifr and this setup is affordable, realistic and Practical   

Edited October 16, 2019 by Scott Aviation

[MIm20c]

Depending on your installers interpretation of the stc you might need to rearrange the panel to move the rest of your 6 pack to a standard configuration. Otherwise I really like your choice of components. 

[Yetti]

I don't think important stuff can go that far out of line of sight.

[jetdriven]

Id mount the Aera660 in portrait mode before mounting an ipad. Also, the standby instruments are not in a good location and the primary G5s are too far left. 

[carusoam]

Expect there are limitations to the location of back up Instruments.... because when they are needed... they become primary...

Sooo... if only following logic, and not actual rules... even moving the instruments to the left side of the small panel they are mounted in already would be an improvement...

 

Check on one important detail... where the G5s are going in... make sure there is clearance as the yoke can move up and down a bit behind the panel...

Check on a lesser detail as well... the CGRs are really nice... but not all of their capabilities are considered primary.  Make sure you know what is considered primary, to not accidentally remove a primary gauge...

We have a really good EI guy around here if you have any EI questions...

PP thoughts only, stuff I learned sort of around here...

Best regards,

-a- 

[mark21m20c]

I would flush mount G5 and have a standard six pack and move I pad to  right  were you have airspeed and altimeter. You have spent money for nice equipment I would set it up for IFR . Your in the clouds moderated turbulence were do you want your flight instruments ??? I think you will be much happier and have better resale value .

[ArtVandelay]

Don’t understand why keeping steam engines when recutting panels, I would do G3X 7”, move stec TC over to the far right.


Tom

[KB4]

15 hours ago, Yetti said:

I don't think important stuff can go that far out of line of sight.

Looks like he has a JPI900/930 selected because there are no standard temp/pressure gauges, all replaced by JPI.  G5's are now primary, so could remove all steam not coupled to AP of course.   

[KB4]

13 hours ago, mark21m20c said:

I would flush mount G5 and have a standard six pack and move I pad to  right  were you have airspeed and altimeter. You have spent money for nice equipment I would set it up for IFR . Your in the clouds moderated turbulence were do you want your flight instruments ??? I think you will be much happier and have better resale value .

Don't flush mount them.  The screens are already really small compared to what we are used to I-Pads and such.  Get it as close to your face as possible its only an inch, but really, the screens are kind of tiny.  I didn't flush my G5 HSI.  If had Bigger screens, then yes no question flush mount.  

[EricJ]

You might be tempting various inspectors and regulators with the placement of the air data instruments (airspeed, alt, vsi).   There are various FARs and ACs (e.g., 23.1303.v, AC23.1311) that suggest there are viewing angle standards for required instruments that the shown placement might not meet.

Not sure how different that is up in Canuckia.

[KSMooniac]

I'd retain a standard 6 pack arrangement on the left. It is likely required by the regs and G5 STC but I haven't gotten in the weeds on that myself.

The 77 doesn't have the hump in the radio stack/glareshield, or at least mine doesn't.

I would add a hardwired Aera 660 in the radio stack as an MFD and weather receiver (ADS-B or XM but perhaps not in Canada) and put the iPad on the right side. You might consider an articulating MyGoFlight or RAM mount for it so you can position nicely in flight and move out of the way for ingress/egress. Or yoke mount the iPad Mini...I've grown to really like mine.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[flyboy0681]

21 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Id mount the Aera660 in portrait mode before mounting an ipad. Also, the standby instruments are not in a good location and the primary G5s are too far left. 

I wouldn't permanently mount either. Chances are good that both units will be discontinued sometime in the near future and you'll have to replace the mount for a unit that is in-vogue at that time, which may still work out.

[MIm20c]

A while back I was looking to panel mount an iPad (next to my aspen) in my C. The thought is still on hold as I’m currently upgrading a different panel. However, when I revisit it, my current thinking is to install a g3x mfd instead.  The capabilities it adds to the panel are astounding. It can be used to display primary engine gauges, traffic, maps, charts, weather, and flight plans.  The pricing isn’t too bad at around $6600 for the display and EIS.
 

[MIm20c]

[Scott Aviation]

14 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I'd retain a standard 6 pack arrangement on the left. It is likely required by the regs and G5 STC but I haven't gotten in the weeds on that myself.

The 77 doesn't have the hump in the radio stack/glareshield, or at least mine doesn't.

I would add a hardwired Aera 660 in the radio stack as an MFD and weather receiver (ADS-B or XM but perhaps not in Canada) and put the iPad on the right side. You might consider an articulating MyGoFlight or RAM mount for it so you can position nicely in flight and move out of the way for ingress/egress. Or yoke mount the iPad Mini...I've grown to really like mine.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Hey Scott, I upgraded the glareshield and added panel bump 7 years ago when I did resto.  I've back and forth on leaving the 6 pack alone,  I just bought the second EI engine monitor to add the primary fuel levels and cies probes because we all know the original senders are junk and it allows me to remove the last 2 original fuel level gauges freeing up the top panel bar for removal as well.  I've attached a pic of my current setup, (which is a work in progress) of removing old indicators, and vacuum system was already removed.  I researched the regs and couldn't find anything that stated exactly where the original 6 pack must be. 

 

 

[KSMooniac]

Interesting... I love my flat glareshield versus that bumped version! Why did you make the change?

I would leave your 6-pack intact, but cut a nice new panel. I think the G5 STC requires the instrument retention, but you'll have to read it fully.

One more note, you should print a full scale EI CGR picture and put it in the lower right location like you plan, and see how the throttle knob obstructs it. That is where my EDM 900 is, but only after I deleted my throttle quadrant because it interfered.

Good choice on the sender upgrade too. I wish I did it.

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[Scott Aviation]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 12:09 AM, ArtVandelay said:

Don’t understand why keeping steam engines when recutting panels, I would do G3X 7”, move stec TC over to the far right.


Tom

Hey Tom....cash.  up here in the great white north we are hit with a 35% surcharge called exchange rates.  we don't make 35% more than you guys down in the lower 48 so reason stands my $5999 GNC-355 is now $8400 cdn. PMA450B is $3100 cdn. etc etc etc.  got a quote to upgrade my panel from garmin dealer with 10" G3X, GFC500, GTN650 etc cost was $72,000 and that's with me assisting.  I think I'll be around 24k for my upgrades.  Although most of us make decent money to afford these upgrades I'm looking at it as what will get me a fantastic, comfortable VFR machine with the occasional IFR trip.  1 thing I've learned living in the rockies, the normally aspirated mooney is not the best platform for crossing mountains in IFR, icing, turbulence, ceiling limitations with peaks at 12,500 etc.

The funny thing is everyone I've personally talked to that's put a G500, G3X  in ends up with an Ipad infront of their face anyways. I guess it all depends on mission.

 dual G5 with Ipad probably works great for 90% of us.

 

 

[Scott Aviation]

10 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

Interesting... I love my flat glareshield versus that bumped version! Why did you make the change?

I would leave your 6-pack intact, but cut a nice new panel. I think the G5 STC requires the instrument retention, but you'll have to read it fully.

One more note, you should print a full scale EI CGR picture and put it in the lower right location like you plan, and see how the throttle knob obstructs it. That is where my EDM 900 is, but only after I deleted my throttle quadrant because it interfered.

Good choice on the sender upgrade too. I wish I did it.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Hey Scott, good luck finding an original glareshield..lol  mine was disinigrated and all that was available was the bumped version from a salvage yard and it still wasn't in great shape.  Made it work. 

G5 STC requires the retention but thinking logically you've now got dual g5s with battery backup that have all your flight information the meet the needs of safe flight x 2. x  battery backed up etc. so I would completely feel comfortable moving my 3 primarys away and god forbid if I ever was in IFR with losing my 2 G5's, I still have ipad, then I would get out of IFR condition, then glance over to my right and verify my speed and altitude for a VFR landing.  does that make sense?  Does anyone else agree with this thought process? am I out to lunch? Because what I have now blows the original setup out of the water from 42 years ago.

Thanks for that tip with the quadrant and CGR, good point, I'll check the ergonomics of mounting it there and if the quadrant will block the display or not.

 

[MIm20c]

@Scott Aviation Garmin keeps changing the stc installation guidelines...hard to keep up. In previous revisions they specified the exact location the G5 units needed to be installed and required the remaining 6 pack to stay in current locations. 
I just looked and you are correct. The required placement wording has been replaced with typical installations. You should be legal with the above arrangement although I just skimmed the manual.