Stupid pilot tricks - or how my plane is faster than I thought...

[ragedracer1977]

I've owned my Mooney for just about 2.5 years. I've logged 600 hours flying her around.  My ASI has a kollsman window, and I would always adjust it for TAS.  No matter what, I would always see about 145-155 mph true.  That always seemed a little slow to me, but you know, it is what it is.  

Last week, I had the new Garmin OAT interface installed.  This shows TAS on the G5.  Wouldn't you know, the G5 displayed the true always thought my plane should be doing.  165ish MPH.  So, I figured my mechanical ASI was just off.  I mean indicated always matched indicated on the G5, so I guessed the kollsman window just didn't work right.  

Until today.  I don't know why, but I finally figured it out.  Did you know the left side of the kollsman window is for temps above 0c and the right side is for temps below 0c?  I've been doing it wrong, I guess because in my head, 0c would be in the middle so above would be on the right and below would be on the left....

For almost 3 years, I've been adjusting my ASI to the wrong side.  

[rbridges]

Dang, dude. I think that deserves a 709 ride.  j/k

[ArtVandelay]

Forget the TAS, your G5 shows 137 IAS, your mechanical shows 119.


Tom

[Shadrach]

Just now, ArtVandelay said:

Forget the TAS, your G5 shows 137 IAS, your mechanical shows 119.


Tom

The G5 is in mph just like the outer ring of the ASI.

[kpaul]

1 minute ago, ArtVandelay said:

Forget the TAS, your G5 shows 137 IAS, your mechanical shows 119.


Tom

Looks like the G5 is in MPH which matches pretty closely to the machinal ASI.

[ArtVandelay]

Looks like the G5 is in MPH which matches pretty closely to the machinal ASI.

The GS is in knots? I didn’t see the mph. Boy that’s confusing, I would pick one or the other.


Tom

[Bob_Belville]

5 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

The GS is in knots? I didn’t see the mph. Boy that’s confusing, I would pick one or the other.


Tom

If the G5 installation instructions are like the Aspen, the installer is required to use MPH since that is what the original owners manual uses. (A friendly hangar fairy can change it to KTS if desired.)

[ArtVandelay]

If the G5 installation instructions are like the Aspen, the installer is required to use MPH since that is what the original owners manual uses. (A friendly hangar fairy can change it to KTS if desired.)

Wouldn’t that apply to the ground speed as well?


Tom

[aviatoreb]

Well I learned a word!  kollsman window

[MIm20c]

51 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

The GS is in knots? I didn’t see the mph. Boy that’s confusing, I would pick one or the other.


Tom

All the speeds on the G5 are in MPH. The ground speed is showing a 14 mph headwind component. 

[ragedracer1977]

36 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Wouldn’t that apply to the ground speed as well?


Tom

GS isn't a required indication.  The G5 has to display airspeed in MPH because that's how all the airspeed limitations are set in the owners manual.

I could have GS display in mph but I prefer it in knots because all approaches are timed by knots, not MPH

[ragedracer1977]

1 minute ago, MIm20c said:

All the speeds on the G5 are in MPH. The ground speed is showing a 14 mph headwind component. 

No, the ground speed is knots.  Says it right there 

[MIm20c]

Need to open my eyes...:)

[ragedracer1977]

22 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Well I learned a word!  kollsman window

Technically I don't think it's a kollsman window, that's what I my CFI called it because you adjust for barometric pressure.  Like the "real" kollsman window on your altimeter.

[aviatoreb]

8 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Technically I don't think it's a kollsman window, that's what I my CFI called it because you adjust for barometric pressure.  Like the "real" kollsman window on your altimeter.

Are you saying you taught me a word incorrectly?!

[Ragsf15e]

10 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I've owned my Mooney for just about 2.5 years. I've logged 600 hours flying her around.  My ASI has a kollsman window, and I would always adjust it for TAS.  No matter what, I would always see about 145-155 mph true.  That always seemed a little slow to me, but you know, it is what it is.  

Last week, I had the new Garmin OAT interface installed.  This shows TAS on the G5.  Wouldn't you know, the G5 displayed the true always thought my plane should be doing.  165ish MPH.  So, I figured my mechanical ASI was just off.  I mean indicated always matched indicated on the G5, so I guessed the kollsman window just didn't work right.  

Until today.  I don't know why, but I finally figured it out.  Did you know the left side of the kollsman window is for temps above 0c and the right side is for temps below 0c?  I've been doing it wrong, I guess because in my head, 0c would be in the middle so above would be on the right and below would be on the left....

For almost 3 years, I've been adjusting my ASI to the wrong side.  

I’m about to pull the trigger on G5 and was wondering about that TAS indication... did you have to get a new temp probe added under the wing?  Is there a new box and connection under the panel?  What about winds? Display on the HSI?

[ArtVandelay]

GS isn't a required indication.  The G5 has to display airspeed in MPH because that's how all the airspeed limitations are set in the owners manual.
I could have GS display in mph but I prefer it in knots because all approaches are timed by knots, not MPH

The early Js went through a transition to knots and have both, including AS indicator like yours with both. I assume newer models are in knots only (at least when they stopped using mph top speed as the model number).


Tom

[ragedracer1977]

 

12 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I’m about to pull the trigger on G5 and was wondering about that TAS indication... did you have to get a new temp probe added under the wing?  Is there a new box and connection under the panel?  What about winds? Display on the HSI?

It's awesome!

Yes, a new probe installed under the wing. Don't buy the Garmin probe.  They want like $400 for it.  The GAD13 (little control box) is about $140 and a Davtron C307PS probe is about $75. The Davtron probe is called out as acceptable in the installation manual. The GAD13 is tiny.  You could fit one in the little pocket on the front of your jeans.

I get TAS and OAT displayed on the top G5.  The HSI gets wind direction and velocity.  You can have it displayed with a little arrow showing direction or displayed as headwind/tailwind-crosswind component.  Also, since the airdata is shared with the 430W I also get a wind display on that.

 

[ExpressJetter]

As far as the GS discussion, I'd want my GS in Knots.  Helps with easy calculations on the sectional/ time/distance/fuel calculations.  Everything  in the world of flying is in Nautical miles when charted.   When flying the plane for speeds, use MPH since POH has those in mph.  

 

In short I like the GS in Knots and indicated and true in MPH

[ragedracer1977]

18 minutes ago, ExpressJetter said:

As far as the GS discussion, I'd want my GS in Knots.  Helps with easy calculations on the sectional/ time/distance/fuel calculations.  Everything  in the world of flying is in Nautical miles when charted.   When flying the plane for speeds, use MPH since POH has those in mph.  

 

In short I like the GS in Knots and indicated and true in MPH

Yup, that's why mine is set up the way it is

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

The early Js went through a transition to knots and have both, including AS indicator like yours with both. I assume newer models are in knots only (at least when they stopped using mph top speed as the model number).


Tom

My 67F came from the factory with an ASI that read in both (outer MIAS, inner KiAS). The POH is in MPH.  I’m not sure if you’re still confused about his markings but the ASI and G5 match up perfectly.

[Ragsf15e]

4 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

 

It's awesome!

Yes, a new probe installed under the wing. Don't buy the Garmin probe.  They want like $400 for it.  The GAD13 (little control box) is about $140 and a Davtron C307PS probe is about $75. The Davtron probe is called out as acceptable in the installation manual. The GAD13 is tiny.  You could fit one in the little pocket on the front of your jeans.

I get TAS and OAT displayed on the top G5.  The HSI gets wind direction and velocity.  You can have it displayed with a little arrow showing direction or displayed as headwind/tailwind-crosswind component.  Also, since the airdata is shared with the 430W I also get a wind display on that.

 

Thanks, that’s 100 times more helpful than the literature and manual.

[ZuluZulu]

6 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

 

It's awesome!

Yes, a new probe installed under the wing. Don't buy the Garmin probe.  They want like $400 for it.  The GAD13 (little control box) is about $140 and a Davtron C307PS probe is about $75. The Davtron probe is called out as acceptable in the installation manual. The GAD13 is tiny.  You could fit one in the little pocket on the front of your jeans.

I get TAS and OAT displayed on the top G5.  The HSI gets wind direction and velocity.  You can have it displayed with a little arrow showing direction or displayed as headwind/tailwind-crosswind component.  Also, since the airdata is shared with the 430W I also get a wind display on that.

 

Your VSI must be very confused living its life out in a Mooney...

[Ned Gravel]

I found the "kollsman" window discussion interesting. So here is the definitive definition.  It is from the interweb, so it must be true.

[bonal]

Has to be the best speed mod I've ever read about.