Possible ads-b extension

[Sandman993]

On 9/7/2019 at 4:12 PM, Hank said:

FAA has been saying for years "no ADS-B extension." Except as noted above for the airlines, because they operate for profit and pass on to shareholders while I operate from what's left over in my paycheck . . . .

After FAA has been so adamantly opposed to an extension... they better stick to their guns or lose what ever credibility they think they have left. 

Its no fun to deal with avionics shops... and why I didn’t wait. Had my adsb done two years ago before it got hectic. They were warning back then it would be chaotic the closer to deadline we get... the technicians are zapped, my friend came home with a screw hole just behind the door area up high after his adsb adventure... he had to go back once because it hadn’t been programmed.

Other buddies claim there will be an extension... as it was back in the mode c days. 

Suffice it to say, I feel naked without my adsb...it’s great to see tail numbers with a traffic target. Rate it right up there with my first bicycle. And makes flight following almost pointless. I see what they see.

[gsxrpilot]

I've had ADSB installed in two Mooneys in the time y'all have been whining about it. I went the add ES to a 330 route with my M20C and then for the 252 traded a 530W in on an IFD540 which came with a free ADSB transponder from Avidyne. 

There are a lot of options and lots of shops within reasonable Mooney range. 

[Oldguy]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've had ADSB installed in two Mooneys in the time y'all have been whining about it. I went the add ES to a 330 route with my M20C and then for the 252 traded a 530W in on an IFD540 which came with a free ADSB transponder from Avidyne. 

There are a lot of options and lots of shops within reasonable Mooney range. 

Put in my KT 74 in 2015 and upgrading next week to an Avidyne 540 w/ the remote transponder Paul mentioned above. Wanted to do just the IFD 440, but @Chase at Avionics Source had a great deal for me, so I went ahead with the full upgrade. Cleaning up the panel and redoing the interior. Hopefully will be flying by the Mooney Summit, but if not, I will make the 5 hour drive to be there.

[carusoam]

I dragged my feet long enough...installed with this year’s annual...

waas accuracy compared to standard accuracy....

1) WAAS is both tight accuracy, but it includes about a thousand points of light...  -G. Bush 1or 2? 

2) Standard accuracy is pretty close, but is about two points of light in the same time frame...

My experience comes from  graphic display by CloudAhoy... using the WAAS portable source and the iPads gps for comparison...

For avoiding large planes... the standard data is enough to point your eyes in the right direction...

For automated control... the WAAS would be much better...

WAAS is required for measuring a decent T/O length...

PP thoughts only, I know a good avionics guy...

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, Sandman993 said:

Its no fun to deal with avionics shops... and why I didn’t wait. Had my adsb done two years ago before it got hectic. They were warning back then it would be chaotic the closer to deadline we get... the technicians are zapped, my friend came home with a screw hole just behind the door area up high after his adsb adventure... he had to go back once because it hadn’t been programmed.

But you missed out on some great solutions like the GTX-375

-Robert

[steingar]

I predict there are going to be lots of violations and lots of stranded aircraft after January 1.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Oldguy said:

Put in my KT 74 in 2015 and upgrading next week to an Avidyne 540 w/ the remote transponder Paul mentioned above. Wanted to do just the IFD 440, but @Chase at Avionics Source had a great deal for me, so I went ahead with the full upgrade. Cleaning up the panel and redoing the interior. Hopefully will be flying by the Mooney Summit, but if not, I will make the 5 hour drive to be there.

??  the IFD 540 is not an approved position source for the KT-74?

[RobertGary1]

26 minutes ago, steingar said:

I predict there are going to be lots of violations and lots of stranded aircraft after January 1.

Like most of Southwest Airlines 737's.

-Robert

Edited September 9, 2019 by RobertGary1

[Oldguy]

33 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

??  the IFD 540 is not an approved position source for the KT-74?

Might be, but after my KT74 trade-in and the 430W trade-in, the AXP-322 came with the IFD 540 for free. Cleaned up the right side of my panel as well. Essentially ended up with the 540 and AXP for the same price as I would have paid for the 440 alone with 430W trade-in. More screen space and cleaner panel.

I am not sure about the support of the IFDs for position sources for the KT 74. At one time, only the Garmin boxes were on the STC, but I believe it has changed.

[jaylw314]

4 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Might be, but after my KT74 trade-in and the 430W trade-in, the AXP-322 came with the IFD 540 for free. Cleaned up the right side of my panel as well. Essentially ended up with the 540 and AXP for the same price as I would have paid for the 440 alone with 430W trade-in. More screen space and cleaner panel.

I am not sure about the support of the IFDs for position sources for the KT 74. At one time, only the Garmin boxes were on the STC, but I believe it has changed.

Here is someone from the avidyne forums recently.  It sounds like still no, but in the future, maybe?...

Edit: ah, I didn't realize you'd had the AXP-322 installed

Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 11:01pm

mfb wrote: I am at Oshkosh all this week. I’ll try to talk to Avidyne and BK and find out.   Mike     OK, I talked to both BK and Avidyne folks at Oshkosh. They were standing right next to each other so there was no finger pointing.   They were all aware of the issue with the KT-74. They agreed that they were "working on it." They said that there were no big technical problems but that the paperwork had to be pushed through the FAA. No one was willing to make any predictions on how long that would take. Everyone hoped it would be "soon."   That's all for now.   Mike

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

I predict there are going to be lots of violations and lots of stranded aircraft after January 1.

OH NO!!!  It’s Y2K all over again!!   Or as Yogi Berra said “it’s dejay vu all over again” 

[RobertGary1]

Apparently the military has been working under the assumption they will have an extension for some time.

-Robert

[Andy95W]

10 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Like most of Southwest Airlines 737's.

-Robert

Ironically, the 737 Max airplanes are probably ADS-B compliant from the factory.

[Sandman993]

18 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

But you missed out on some great solutions like the GTX-375

-Robert

Yeah, dog-gone it. I’m stuck with that old gtn 750 and gtx 345 antique.

[Bob_Belville]

I installed a GDL 88 (and a GTN 750) DEC 18, 2012, about 10 minutes after Garmin got the 88 approved. I've been compliant and have had weather and traffic displayed on the 750 for almost 7 years. 

I think I made a good decision to get and enjoy the goodies early, even though there might be cheaper solutions coming at some point. 

[mike_elliott]

20 hours ago, Oldguy said:

Put in my KT 74 in 2015 and upgrading next week to an Avidyne 540 w/ the remote transponder Paul mentioned above. Wanted to do just the IFD 440, but @Chase at Avionics Source had a great deal for me, so I went ahead with the full upgrade. Cleaning up the panel and redoing the interior. Hopefully will be flying by the Mooney Summit, but if not, I will make the 5 hour drive to be there.

only 5 hrs...Ill be on the road for close to 8..

[Sandman993]

On 9/9/2019 at 9:43 AM, RobertGary1 said:

I’ve thought about getting uAvionics as a temp solution until Garmin and the shops catch up. I fly in the Bay Area so ads-b is necessary. Not sure how easy it would be to transfer one of those units once it’s been assigned and if there is an stc if they allow reassignment. 

-Robert 

Uavionics makes you legal... your iPad with a stratus or other brand has adsb in... there’s no reason to do anymore unless you are picky about a fancy setup, like what some have, but it costs a bundle... garmin as usual, is expensive asf. Thought one 750 would be enough, but switching screens is an inconvenience, so while I got rid of most of a fleet of portables hanging out on the glare shield, I’m still stuck with a 796 on the yoke so I can get traffic and or fisb radar from gtx345 while using the 750 for maps and plates without looking down and reaching for an iPad. The 796 doesn’t overheat and quit like the iPad can. You simply can’t rely on an iPad 100% ... if it gets some sunlight... it can shutdown as most here know.

you can alway buy the plane back by adding avionics... I have more $ in the engine and avionics than I payed for the ship...

someone once said, “what’s another bucket of water to a drowning man”?

[RobertGary1]

2 minutes ago, Sandman993 said:

Uavionics makes you legal... your iPad with a stratus or other brand has adsb in...

Realistically if you want to fly IFR into the future you need to be able to shoot LPV approaches. Its much easier and cheaper to just do it at once.

-Robert

[jaylw314]

18 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Realistically if you want to fly IFR into the future you need to be able to shoot LPV approaches. Its much easier and cheaper to just do it at once.

-Robert

I don't know if I agree with that.  For most private pilots, we don't fly or practice IFR approaches to 200' minimums often enough to be proficient or comfortable (or both), so I don't know how crucial WAAS based approaches are to the average private guy.  Heck, I can't remember the last time I had ceilings down to 200' to play with, and I live here in the PNW, although I'm sure I'll get plenty in a couple months...

[Sandman993]

When I practice, I always fly to minimums under a hood. Lateral guidance, but I manipulate the altitude. 

But that’s like going to the gun range... the paper targets aren’t shooting back at me.

if you really want a challenge, take off with a hood... haha, just kidding. Kids, don’t try this at home!

[Sandman993]

Just imagine, we used to hand fly ILS approaches down to mins with a glide slope and a paper chart lol. Still can if you wanna. 

[jaylw314]

29 minutes ago, Sandman993 said:

When I practice, I always fly to minimums under a hood. Lateral guidance, but I manipulate the altitude. 

But that’s like going to the gun range... the paper targets aren’t shooting back at me.

if you really want a challenge, take off with a hood... haha, just kidding. Kids, don’t try this at home!

That's what I mean, getting experience flying down to minimums in actual IMC is not the same as doing so under the hood, and few people have the opportunity to do that with any kind of frequency...

[RobertGary1]

28 minutes ago, Sandman993 said:

Just imagine, we used to hand fly ILS approaches down to mins with a glide slope and a paper chart lol. Still can if you wanna. 

Not for long. We have 3 airports here with ILS systems. The FAA used their backup ILS system a couple years ago. When the next one fails they'll just shuffle them around and shut 1 down. Just like VOR's when the ILS's need maintenance they'll just steal parts from another and take it out of service.

GPS navigation is cheaper for the gov't.

-Robert

[jaylw314]

8 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Not for long. We have 3 airports here with ILS systems. The FAA used their backup ILS system a couple years ago. When the next one fails they'll just shuffle them around and shut 1 down. Just like VOR's when the ILS's need maintenance they'll just steal parts from another and take it out of service.

GPS navigation is cheaper for the gov't.

-Robert

I guess I was thinking of guys with the older non-WAAS GPS already installed.  If you install new, I don't know there are any new non-WAAS GPS out there anyhow

[Andy95W]

1 minute ago, jaylw314 said:

I guess I was thinking of guys with the older non-WAAS GPS already installed.  If you install new, I don't know there are any new non-WAAS GPS out there anyhow

I agree with Jay. A lot of people have been saying for years that “in the future, you will NEED a WAAS GPS with the ability to do LPV approaches “. 

I fly for a living and I can count on one hand the number of ILS approaches to no-shit minimums I’ve flown in 20 years. (I’m not counting autolands to below CAT 1 minimums because LPV wouldn’t have helped in those situations).  A non-WAAS GPS to LNAV minimums works just fine more than 99% of the time.