Is it possible to install rudder extensions pedals upside down?

[N231SM]

Just received rudder extension pedals and installed them. They are shaped such that I am waaayyy too heavy on brakes. I had to insert toes of my shoes into center of extension to operate from center of pedal instead of using entire pedal. Anyone else have these? Thanks.

[PT20J]

I've installed both the 1.5 and 3 inch extensions in different M20Js. It would be pretty hard to imagine screwing up the installation, but you can always double check the drawing. I've noticed that the pedal angle with the 3 inch extensions is such that it's easy to ride the brakes with the seat cranked up pretty high.

Skip

[N231SM]

Yes. I am riding the breaks. Anyone think it is possible to somehow reverse the brackets so that the angle is different? It seemed to me that there was only one way. 

 

 

I have to use toes to work the bottoms as rudders then move up to catch the breaks. Not possible to have enitre foot on rudders now after the change. I have the 3" extensions.

 If you do, then you get braking action on takeoff.

Anyone else.??? If I could lower the braking action, that would work. If you trop  a plumb  line from the top of the rudder, the bottoms are agood 1.5" forward of that point. 

 

I am on a trip. Otherwise I would just yank them. 

 

Yes- it says "M" not "W". 

 

Thanks guys. 

 

 

Jim

[Andy95W]

Pedal position can be adjusted at the master cylinder.  Only have to remove one panel and 1-2 hours max.

[carusoam]

Some installations have reported needing a set of holes for proper installation...

Apparently, the drawing shows the proper hole to be drilled?

Is this the challenge?

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

-a-

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, carusoam said:

Some installations have reported needing a set of holes for proper installation...

Apparently, the drawing shows the proper hole to be drilled?

Is this the challenge?

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

-a-

The 3” extensions do require drilling holes in the pedals to attach the brackets, but these holes don’t have any affect on the angle of the pedals which is set by the factory drilled holes in the brackets. 

@Andy95W idea to adjust at the brake cylinders is something I haven’t tried. I assume he means to shorten the rod ends. The maintenance manual doesn’t seem to describe the adjustment unless I missed something (always possible).

[Andy95W]

4 hours ago, PT20J said:

 

@Andy95W idea to adjust at the brake cylinders is something I haven’t tried. I assume he means to shorten the rod ends. The maintenance manual doesn’t seem to describe the adjustment unless I missed something (always possible).

See the picture below.  The master cylinders (at least on my Mooney- and I have the upgraded 201-style Cleveland master cylinders) have a threaded end that goes to a threaded clevis fork.  A small adjustment goes a long way.  Based on your description, I figure you'll need about 2-3 turns.

The right master cylinder is easy to get to.  The left is a bear.

[PT20J]

On 5/4/2019 at 9:39 PM, Andy95W said:

Pedal position can be adjusted at the master cylinder.  Only have to remove one panel and 1-2 hours max.

Thanks for the tip, Andy.

The service manual doesn't mention this adjustment. I did it on my '94 J today. A bit of a PITA -- had to remove the cowling to get to the fasteners on the front of the left exhaust cavity and also had to remove the left nose gear door since the piano hinge is on top of the inboard side of the cavity, and, of course, someone had cammed out one of the screws, so I had to drill and extract it. But, after that the brake cylinders are easily accessed. At first I thought I'd have to remove the clevis pins to rotate the threaded rod end, but since the brake cylinder shaft is round, all I had to do was adjust the jam nut which rotates the shaft while the clevis pin keeps the threaded rod end from rotating thus allowing the length of the rod to be adjusted. There are flats on the brake cylinder shaft just behind the nut that, after compressing the spring, you can put an open-end wrench on to keep the shaft from turning while you check the torque on the jam nut when done. 

Brake pedal geometry is much improved.

Skip

[carusoam]

Interesting...  I Didn’t know that was possible.

 

Skip,

How much of an adjustment did you make at the threads, and how much did it turn out to be at the pedals?

 

... and... what is the red stain at the drain of the Weldon pump?

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Thanks for the tip, Andy.

The service manual doesn't mention this adjustment. I did it on my '94 J today. A bit of a PITA -- had to remove the cowling to get to the fasteners on the front of the left exhaust cavity and also had to remove the left nose gear door since the piano hinge is on top of the inboard side of the cavity, and, of course, someone had cammed out one of the screws, so I had to drill and extract it. But, after that the brake cylinders are easily accessed. At first I thought I'd have to remove the clevis pins to rotate the threaded rod end, but since the brake cylinder shaft is round, all I had to do was adjust the jam nut which rotates the shaft while the clevis pin keeps the threaded rod end from rotating thus allowing the length of the rod to be adjusted. There are flats on the brake cylinder shaft just behind the nut that, after compressing the spring, you can put an open-end wrench on to keep the shaft from turning while you check the torque on the jam nut when done. 

Brake pedal geometry is much improved.

Skip

I would have a couple washer on that rear clevis pins to i) keep the angle as straight a possible as the cylinder moves inside and ii) ensure the MC can't move from side to side. But maybe I am just overly anal.

[PT20J]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Interesting...  I Didn’t know that was possible.

 

Skip,

How much of an adjustment did you make at the threads, and how much did it turn out to be at the pedals?

 

... and... what is the red stain at the drain of the Weldon pump?

Best regards,

-a-

Anthony,

I didn't actually measure it but as Andy said, there is a lot of leverage. Due to the tight space to work in, I could only move the nut one flat at a time. I'd guess I turned the nut about 2 revolutions and I would guess that moved the top of the rudder pedals toward the firewall about 1/2 inch, maybe a little more.

The red is paint overspray that came through the hole in the skin for the pump drain.

Skip

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

I would have a couple washer on that rear clevis pins to i) keep the angle as straight a possible as the cylinder moves inside and ii) ensure the MC can't move from side to side. But maybe I am just overly anal.

Well, I actually thought about that. Interestingly, the rod end for the right brake has a couple of spacing washers, but the left does not. And, neither master cylinder had washers on the rear end attachment. The IPC doesn't call out any washers. If I'd had someone to step on the brakes while I watched the motion of the cylinders, I might have changed something, but I decided to leave well enough alone 

BTW, there are a few rod ends in this area for the rudder/steering that never get Tri-flowed.

Skip

[PT20J]

One last point: I put 1.5" extensions on my '78 J years ago and didn't notice much change in angle of the top of the pedal. My '94 J came from the factory with 1.5" extensions installed, and I didn't notice a problem until I removed them and installed 3" extensions. After that, the top of the pedals were noticeably too far aft making it easy to ride the brakes slightly. So, I think perhaps Mooney messed up the angles of the 3" extensions. Anyway, it's fairly easily fixed with the adjustment at the brake cylinders.

Skip