Engine Starting

[lifendet]

Having problems starting my engine. Any suggestions? I just flew for 3 hrs and now it weren't start. Tried all I can think of. 

[carusoam]

First...

1) fuel

2) air

3) spark

 

Then...

4) timing

5) SOS?

6) Both mags grounded?

 

Recheck...

7) cold start procedure

8) warm start procedure

9) Flood it... then the flooded start procedure.

 

10) What’s your OAT?

 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI or mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Hot starts for the injected engines are troublesome for many. Search here for "hot start" for many methods. My C is carbureted, so I can't offer any other assistance. Although some here insist that the IO engines are not difficult to hot start . . . .

[Robert C.]

Well, if you have just flown 3 hours I assume the engine is hot and the 1st hypothesis to eliminate would be vapor lock.

With my IO550 the procedure is to pull the Mixture to "cut-off/out" and the throttle to "full/in" and then run the high boost pump for 30 seconds. That clears the vapors and cools the plumbing (fuel goes back into the tank).

I then give it a 5 sec low boost prime, 2-3 twists of throttle and half the time I have normal start. The other half requires a little more fiddling with the throttle.

Not sure about the Lycoming so I'll let your fellow J drivers opine on the best hot-start method for that engine.

Robert

[carusoam]

Unfortunately the IO550 has a piece of plumbing for the fuel to return to the tank that the J doesn’t have...

But the logic still applies.

Best regards,

-a-

[PT20J]

Try this: https://youtu.be/jbRYqS-fRo0

 

[Bob - S50]

Hot start:

Throttle forward 1/4"

Mixture idle cutoff

Crank

When it catches, mixture smoothly forward about half way toward full rich.

If it doesn't catch:

Stop.

Mixture full rich.

Boost pump on for 1 second.

Mixture idle cutoff.

Crank.

[RLCarter]

37 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Try this: https://youtu.be/jbRYqS-fRo0

Bad link.   Hot Starts

Edited February 10, 2019 by RLCarter

[PT20J]

2 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

Bad link

Search youtube for Don Maxwell hot start.

[Yetti]

for the 4 cylinder  IO Lycoming in your J.

Regular start

Open throttle 1"

Elect fuel pump on.  Open Mixture count to 6

Close mixture turn off fuel pump

Crank.  Slowly increase mixture to half when pops.

 

Hot start

Shut down with mixture at 1100 RPM or 1" of throttle

Don't touch anything.   Master on and just crank.

Slowly add mixture when pops.  

No electric fuel pump.

 

How do you know you flooded it.  When gas flows out on the ground or when you crank and it pops you add mixture and it dies.

Flooded.

Open Throttle all the way.  Close mixture

Crank till pops.

Do the two handed dance to get the throttle closed to 1"  while the mixture is going up to half.

 

[jaylw314]

You'll want to be a little more specific about having "tried everything."  If you've actually intentionally flooded the engine and tried a flooded start, then you may have something other than just a problem with starting technique.

If you're unsure if you've flooded the engine, you should just go ahead and try a flooded start.  Cranking for 10-15 seconds really should have cleared any fuel from the intake, and then you can try a normal cold start afterwards (since you should have cleared out any vapors from the fuel lines with the full-throttle priming).

[PT20J]

If it doesn’t start after a couple of attempts, prime enough so you are sure it’s flooded and do a flooded start procedure. Works every time.

When priming an engine with a RSA injector, it’s important to open the throttle about an inch or so. Idle mixture is controlled by the idle valve connected to the throttle. If the throttle is set too low, the valve limits the fuel flow and you will get an inconsistent amount of prime depending on the throttle position. 

Skip

[lifendet]

Question.. Does the lycoming use both mags to start or the left then the other mag kicks in.. 

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, lifendet said:

Question.. Does the lycoming use both mags to start or the left then the other mag kicks in.. 

One mag except Bendix dual mag engines that start on both. 

[jaylw314]

52 minutes ago, lifendet said:

Question.. Does the lycoming use both mags to start or the left then the other mag kicks in.. 

The IO-360 A3B6 starts on the left magneto only.  I believe the A3B6D also starts on the left magneto only even though it is a dual-drive magneto (I'm only guessing on that).

[jaylw314]

1 minute ago, PT20J said:

One mag except Bendix dual mag engines that start on both. 

Out of curiosity, do both mags in the Bendix dual mag have impulse coupling, or just the left?
 

[lifendet]

30 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

The IO-360 A3B6 starts on the left magneto only.  I believe the A3B6D also starts on the left magneto only even though it is a dual-drive magneto (I'm only guessing on that).

Had a mechanic take a look at the J and that was his diagnosis. He said the left mag failed.. 

[jaylw314]

2 minutes ago, lifendet said:

Had a mechanic take a look at the J and that was his diagnosis. He said the left mag failed.. 

Do you have an A3B6 (two Slick mags) or A3B6D (on Bendix dual-mag)? And what type of failure?  Getting a magneto fixed or replaced should not be prohibitively expensive

[PT20J]

51 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I believe the A3B6D also starts on the left magneto only even though it is a dual-drive magneto (I'm only guessing on that).

Actually, it depends on whether you have the jumper on the ignition switch or not. No jumper = both mags for start. 

[lifendet]

18 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Do you have an A3B6 (two Slick mags) or A3B6D (on Bendix dual-mag)? And what type of failure?  Getting a magneto fixed or replaced should not be prohibitively expensive

The A3B6 (two slick mags). Couldn't get engine started, he said left mag not firing. 

[jaylw314]

5 minutes ago, lifendet said:

The A3B6 (two slick mags). Couldn't get engine started, he said left mag not firing. 

The Slick mags in the A3B6 use a plastic cam.  I'm guessing its wear affects the internal timing faster at the beginning, because I had to have the internal timing reset on mine after about 150 hours.  Obviously, this has a more noticeable impact on the left mag since it's used for starting.  Hopefully, yours just needs to have the e-gap reset.  Ask your A&P if he has a rig to bench test the magneto before sending it out, if it doesn't fire at normal operating speeds, there's something larger wrong.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

Out of curiosity, do both mags in the Bendix dual mag have impulse coupling, or just the left?

I believe the impulse coupling spins the common mechanism that turns both mags.

[jaylw314]

Just now, PT20J said:

I believe the impulse coupling spins the common mechanism that turns both mags.

Huh, why the heck would anyone want to start on just the left mag then?

[buddy]

18 hours ago, Robert C. said:

Well, if you have just flown 3 hours I assume the engine is hot and the 1st hypothesis to eliminate would be vapor lock.

With my IO550 the procedure is to pull the Mixture to "cut-off/out" and the throttle to "full/in" and then run the high boost pump for 30 seconds. That clears the vapors and cools the plumbing (fuel goes back into the tank).

I then give it a 5 sec low boost prime, 2-3 twists of throttle and half the time I have normal start. The other half requires a little more fiddling with the throttle.

Not sure about the Lycoming so I'll let your fellow J drivers opine on the best hot-start method for that engine.

Robert

Robert have you tried this, cold start everything full forward high boost pump 3-4 seconds throttle back to 1/4 in. Open and should start on one blade. Hot start, everything full forward low boost pump10 seconds, pull throttle back and as you start cranking push the throttle in slowly and by the time you get to 3/4 throttle it should start without a problem. This always works for me.

Buddy

[bradp]

@PT20J Skip are you an aeronautical engineer in real life?  You have a ton of Mooney specific engineering knowledge.