Avidyne WiFi/BT Failure General Announcement

[DualRatedFlyer]

Departed PA for a trip to Key West on Sunday for a short vacation with family. Noticed my iPad wasn't pairing with my IFD440 for some reason. Restarted the IFD to double check I clicked "allow" on the wifi prompt. Bluetooth and wifi symbols come up on the unit, but no networks are visible on my iPad or phone or backup iPad. Only so much troubleshooting can be completed from the air, so I did what I could and decided to give them a call after landing in Key West since I was on a tight schedule.

First time calling avidyne. Tech support was extreemly repsonsive calling me back within 5 minutes. They shot me a list of data to collect from certain pages on the avidyne system pages.  I went back out to the airport to grab screenshots. I have attached what I found. 

When I called them back with the results they said there was an issue with the unit based on the blank LIO lines that would result in an avidyne dealer having to open the box to replace microsims. I asked if this was a known failure mode to which I was given a bit of a runaround about how "we wouldn't call it a known failure mode but we have seen it happen and have a 100% fix - although in speaking with our engineers the reason this happens is something too complex that I can't adequately explain it because I'm not a software person " (or some variation of that). 

Three concerns I had, 1) would this be a warranty repair- to which they said even if it was outside of warranty they would fix this for free 2) would it happen again? -no we've never had a repeat failure. 3) is something I'm doing causing this? - no there is no way you could have induced this failure. 

 

Headed to the shop hopefully next week to resolve. 

Thought I would post this here in case any fellow MS'rs found themselves with a similar failure. 

If anyone has more info or has seen this in the past and knows what's going on behind the scenes I would be really interested in a more in-depth explanation other than "software".

 

Thanks

[Marauder]

What I have seen with my Garmin units is that if the failure was considered a safety issue they would issue a service note and it would be covered. Can’t recall how it is worded in the title of the service note, but one version of these service note (TSO/STC in the title) is stuff they would cover under an extended warranty while the other type of service note is considered an enhancement.

A good example for me was the open squelch issue on the 650 I have. There was one, possibly two, firmware updates they did for free. But when I wanted version 6.50 with visual approaches, etc., that cost me.

I would just keep good records on the date of first occurrence, what was the issue and what was done to correct it. At least that way you have a historical record and if it happens again, you could argue this was an ongoing issue that should be covered under extended warranty.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

BTW - how did the intercom work out?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[carusoam]

Great pirep, DRF.

Waiting to see how good the response from Avidyne is going to be.

 

@Marauder

See intercom report under today’s flight heading...

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

So generally speaking there are several layers to software.   1) microprocessor (the actual things that need to managed on the chip.  (video, networking))  2) a transport layer (communicating with other things on the computer board)  2) the application layer (what you see on the screen like moving map)   in your case Layer 1 and layer 2 that manage WiFI and BT are hosed and have a bug from the factory.   So those layers did not run when you turn on.   They found the bug and fixed it in the new software to be installed.

There is the word on the street when the FAA added new products to the ADSB ground station uplink that some of it has bad information and some of it has too much information for the processor to handle so it craps out.

So in the "did I break it", no you did not.    It may be that some hardware died in the unit or the extra ADSB clogged up the plumbing.    The fix for the ADSB is to do better error checking routines and manage the feeds of new information better.

 

[Yetti]

If you need any more information, I am going to need a credit card number to proceed....

[EricJ]

The WiFi/BT on my IFD540 was DOA on installation.   It'd configure, you could "allow" it, it appeared at the top of the screen, but it basically didn't exist and wouldn't connect to anything.   In my case they sent the box back to Avidyne to be fixed.   The shop checked it on reinstallation and said it was all working.  I've since used the BT keyboard with it, but personally haven't tested the WiFi since it's been back.   I need to do that.

 

[DualRatedFlyer]

22 minutes ago, EricJ said:

The WiFi/BT on my IFD540 was DOA on installation.   It'd configure, you could "allow" it, it appeared at the top of the screen, but it basically didn't exist and wouldn't connect to anything.   In my case they sent the box back to Avidyne to be fixed.   The shop checked it on reinstallation and said it was all working.  I've since used the BT keyboard with it, but personally haven't tested the WiFi since it's been back.   I need to do that.

 

Same exact symptoms as mine. Here is the repair SB they deployed.  

601-00182-047_SERVICE BULLETIN_IFD4XX_IFD5XX_LOSS_OF_WI-FI_BLUETOOTH_FUNCTIONALITY.pdf

[gsxrpilot]

@Yetti if you can solve my problem of no weather data on my IFD540... I've got a credit card/paypal/cash for you. 

I'm glad to hear the conversation with Avidyne support went well. I've had no luck with them whatsoever. I understand some personnel have changed, so I'll give them another try next week.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Yetti if you can solve my problem of no weather data on my IFD540... I've got a credit card/paypal/cash for you. 

I'm glad to hear the conversation with Avidyne support went well. I've had no luck with them whatsoever. I understand some personnel have changed, so I'll give them another try next week.

Call Avidyne tech support while sitting on the ground in your airplane. They will walk you through all of the settings. Very nice to deal with and they deal with end-user customers and don't tell you to go see your dealer. Talk to Jack Musgrave if you can. Here's his contact:

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Yetti if you can solve my problem of no weather data on my IFD540... I've got a credit card/paypal/cash for you. 

I'm glad to hear the conversation with Avidyne support went well. I've had no luck with them whatsoever. I understand some personnel have changed, so I'll give them another try next week.

What are you not getting?   Are you getting traffic and METARS?   I did determine that I do get METARs, and I get weather displayed on the screen when we have it.   I don't think I had to do anything special to set that up, but maybe the installer had already done something.

My FF Ranger traffic thingie is still a little wonky, but other than throwing fault warnings once in a while seems to be working fine.   The weird part is that the fault warnings seem to be position dependent, e.g., I get them when I go through certain spaces, and other times it's fine.

 

[gsxrpilot]

@LANCECASPER and @EricJ  I have the IFD540 with the AXP322R and SkyTrax100. I get traffic just fine, but I don't get any weather at all. And I've never gotten weather. No METAR's or anything. I've had two installers look at it and neither could find anything wrong. But neither could get Avidyne on the phone. 

I finally got Roland Galindo at Avidyne tech support but he said he could only talk to the avionics shop, not me.

I met and spoke with Bryan Kahl at Oshkosh. He said to call in when I got home and they'd work with me. I did, he referred me back to Roland again... there was one email asking for my phone number and availability. I responded and followed up several times, but I never heard back from anyone.

I'll try again next week when I'm back home with my plane.

[Jim Peace]

3 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

 

I finally got Roland Galindo at Avidyne tech support but he said he could only talk to the avionics shop, not me.

I met and spoke with Bryan Kahl at Oshkosh. He said to call in when I got home and they'd work with me. I did, he referred me back to Roland again... there was one email asking for my phone number and availability. I responded and followed up several times, but I never heard back from anyone.

Frustrating.  Just a hunch, but I bet they had no problems accepting the money for the avionics.  

[Yetti]

4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Yetti if you can solve my problem of no weather data on my IFD540... I've got a credit card/paypal/cash for you. 

I'm glad to hear the conversation with Avidyne support went well. I've had no luck with them whatsoever. I understand some personnel have changed, so I'll give them another try next week.

There are two paths to get traffic data.  Via plane to plane. or ground station.   Weather is ground station only.   What's your ADSB receiver?  Do you have a status page to see what ground stations are being recieved?

[gsxrpilot]

22 minutes ago, Yetti said:

There are two paths to get traffic data.  Via plane to plane. or ground station.   Weather is ground station only.   What's your ADSB receiver?  Do you have a status page to see what ground stations are being recieved?

ADSB In is the SkyTrax100 aka MLB100. It's a remote unit with no display. I'll have to check on the IFD540, but I don't think there's a page that shows ground stations.

I know that even though I get Traffic, the Traffic from the SkyTrax100 and traffic from my Stratus 2 is usually very different.

I wonder if I'm not receiving anything from ground stations...

[xcrmckenna]

I second Jack. He’s helped me with the few problems I’ve had.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EricJ]

FWIW, when mine was first installed the ADSB-in didn't work at all.   According to the installer it was all wired up according to the instructions, but it didn't work beyond setting a fault.  The story I got from the shop was that an Avidyne (non-technical) rep had been by and even taken some of them to lunch, but when they tried to get technical support to solve the problem they got nowhere.

The shop eventually punted and wired it up like it was a legacy GNS530 (which the Avidyne is plug-compatible with) and now it seems to function like it should except that the FF Ranger throws faults sometimes.   It still works fine when it throws the faults, it's just annoying.   I suspect they had to move some of the serial busses around to do that, and that may cost me trouble later if I try to expand things.

I had called Avidyne myself  previously about a different issue during installation and got very good help.   I don't know why the support seems patchy other than they're probably overloaded.

 

[Yetti]

23 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

ADSB In is the SkyTrax100 aka MLB100. It's a remote unit with no display. I'll have to check on the IFD540, but I don't think there's a page that shows ground stations.

I know that even though I get Traffic, the Traffic from the SkyTrax100 and traffic from my Stratus 2 is usually very different.

I wonder if I'm not receiving anything from ground stations...

That's kind of what I was thinking.  If your Stratus sees traffic further away, then it is using the ground station feed.  Let me see what I can find on the SkyTrax.   Simple of stuff is checking fuses, has power and green lights.   May also have a bad antenna/coax. 

[Yetti]

Just now, Yetti said:

That's kind of what I was thinking.  If your Stratus sees traffic further away, then it is using the ground station feed.  Let me see what I can find on the SkyTrax.   Simple of stuff is checking fuses, has power and green lights.   May also have a bad antenna/coax. 

Also if the protocol is not set properly in the Avadyne that could hose things up.

[Yetti]

Interesting enough the Skytrax is a 978 receiver.  The STratus recieves both 978 and 1090

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

Interesting enough the Skytrax is a 978 receiver.  The STratus recieves both 978 and 1090

The TIS-B and FIS-B services come from the ground stations on 978 (UAT), so to display Wx, METARs, etc., on the panel a box has to have a 978 receiver.   In order to minimize cost and only use one antenna and one receiver, it makes sense to just receive 978 instead of both.   This also simplifies installation.    A dual-band receiver in the panel adds cost and installation overhead.    Adding dual-band capability to a Stratux costs about $20. 

I fly with the in-panel Ranger getting just the TIS-B, 978 traffic to display on the IFD540 and my Stratux getting both 978 and 1090 displaying on my tablet(s).  I still routinely see cases where a traffic target that appears on the IFD won't show up on the tablet(s) and vice versa.   I understand why I might get a target on the tablet(s) that doesn't show up on the IFD, but I don't get why something will show up on the IFD and not on the tablet(s).   Maybe the Ranger has a more sensitive receiver or something.   It does utilize an external antenna while my Stratux is just suction-cupped to the inside of one of the rear windows.

Regardless, I still like to fly with both since they do seem to add to each other, plus the cheap redundancy provided by the Stratux.   When I had my alternator failure I still flew home with my tablets getting traffic/wx/etc., from the Stratux (on battery) while my panel was dark.

[Yetti]

8 hours ago, EricJ said:

The TIS-B and FIS-B services come from the ground stations on 978 (UAT), so to display Wx, METARs, etc., on the panel a box has to have a 978 receiver.   In order to minimize cost and only use one antenna and one receiver, it makes sense to just receive 978 instead of both.   This also simplifies installation.    A dual-band receiver in the panel adds cost and installation overhead.    Adding dual-band capability to a Stratux costs about $20. 

 

You could use one antenna by putting some duplexer circuitry in the box.  It's just a receiver after all and the frequencies are close enough not to matter that much.

It's sad that they don't even put a green light on the box to show that it has power.   It's probably serial connection out of the unit.   I could see where the baud being not set properly might keep the larger data stream of weather from coming through.   Interesting enough the original posters problem was probably more with the "security" code of unlocking the wifi/BT because I believe that was an add on option. since you know all the hardware in the GPS unit is about the price of a Raspberry PI and a Baufaung VHF handheld it's kind of chincy for them to charge for the wifi/BT option.

[LANCECASPER]

12 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

ADSB In is the SkyTrax100 aka MLB100. It's a remote unit with no display. I'll have to check on the IFD540, but I don't think there's a page that shows ground stations.

I know that even though I get Traffic, the Traffic from the SkyTrax100 and traffic from my Stratus 2 is usually very different.

I wonder if I'm not receiving anything from ground stations...

I would almost guarantee that it's one of two things: (1) it's either wired incorrectly - before 10.2 software the IFD100 was supposed to be wired in on 429, but after it was supposed to be on rs232 or (2) the configurations need to be changed.

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

You could use one antenna by putting some duplexer circuitry in the box.  It's just a receiver after all and the frequencies are close enough not to matter that much.

Since there will be transmission power going out the antenna at 1090, you don't want to hook a receiver up to the same antenna that can't handle that input power level.   It puts a lot of additional constraints (and cost) in the receiver to do that, or add an expensive diplexer between them that has sufficient isolation.   A dedicated antenna for the 978 input avoids that.   In my case they used the DME antenna since I was deleting an inop DME at the same time.

Which was is the most economical, a second antenna or a diplexer or a unit with an integrated system design, may depend on a lot of things... 

 

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

It's sad that they don't even put a green light on the box to show that it has power.   It's probably serial connection out of the unit.   I could see where the baud being not set properly might keep the larger data stream of weather from coming through.   Interesting enough the original posters problem was probably more with the "security" code of unlocking the wifi/BT because I believe that was an add on option. since you know all the hardware in the GPS unit is about the price of a Raspberry PI and a Baufaung VHF handheld it's kind of chincy for them to charge for the wifi/BT option.

Avidyne doesn't charge for WiFi/BT, or for synthetic vision, or a couple other features that may be expensive add-ons with other competitor's units.   Apparently at one point that was the plan, though, since you enable all of that after installation when they send you the activating codes for free.   In my case I did the WiFi/BT activation, it indicated that it was all working, but nothing could connect to it.  

 

[m20kmooney]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

 In my case I did the WiFi/BT activation, it indicated that it was all working, but nothing could connect to it.  

I'm in the process of researching and planning a panel makeover. This thread is a real eye opener. With all the issues Avidyne has been plagued with makes me steer clear and not spend any money on them. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by m20kmooney