What's with posting videos of violating regs...?

[aviatoreb]

2 minutes ago, steingar said:

A fellow flatlander pal had active hypoxia when his O₂ line developed a kind at 18K.  Are we honestly certain captain Youtube actually went up to 19K, and isn't just shining us on?  Being that high VFR is just as illegal as  not having the O₂.

He’s as likely lying as breaking the law or a combination thereof.

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, xcrmckenna said:

If they are leaving an airport in class G airspace, can’t they fly in to imc if you’re on a IFR flight plan? It’s on you to stay clear of objects? Till you get into controlled?


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You don't need to be on an IFR plan in Class G airspace to fly into IMC, but it only goes up to 1200' AGL in most places around the country, certainly almost anywhere east of the Rockies.  Only out west here are the some places in BFE with Class G above that.  kind of like where you live

[jaylw314]

55 minutes ago, Ned Gravel said:

When we got there in 2002, they fed us this tea brew and we had a nap that afternoon.  Vaso dilator.  Woke up great the next day and never had any problems for the rest of the week. Chinchero is at 12,500' or so.

That must have been that coca leaf tea   I REALLY like the coca tea there!  It was REALLY great!  What a FANTASTIC idea, I can't believe we don't have this stuff here!!!!!

Actually, I did think the coca leaf tea tasted pretty nice, although your tongue gets numb after a while.

[xcrmckenna]

Class G airspace only goes up to 1200' AGL in most places around the country, certainly almost anywhere east of the Rockies.  Only out west here are the some places in BFE with Class G above that.  kind of like where you live

True story, I’m just trying to give them a bone on at least one reg being busted:)

Would that work say the clouds were below the controlled airspace then you break into vfr while you’re still in class G? Then you get your clearance? I’m sure that’s at least bending the rules.


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[gsxrpilot]

Both his G5 and his 3GX show 19000.

[jaylw314]

4 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

True story, I’m just trying to give them a bone on at least one reg being busted:)

Would that work say the clouds were below the controlled airspace then you break into vfr while you’re still in class G? Then you get your clearance? I’m sure that’s at least bending the rules.

That would be technically completely legal, but terminally unwise.  In fact, you could fly your entire trip in IMC in class G without having your IR or talking to ATC and still be technically legal.  Since it's uncontrolled airspace, though, you have no way of knowing if some other guy has the exact same idea as you, and no way to avoid him if he does.

[alextstone]

45 minutes ago, steingar said:

A fellow flatlander pal had active hypoxia when his O₂ line developed a kind at 18K.  Are we honestly certain captain Youtube actually went up to 19K, and isn't just shining us on?  Being that high VFR is just as illegal as  not having the O₂.

I'm not buying it either.  In either case, it's irresponsible IMHO.

Alex

[Shadrach]

50 minutes ago, steingar said:

A fellow flatlander pal had active hypoxia when his O₂ line developed a kind at 18K.  Are we honestly certain captain Youtube actually went up to 19K, and isn't just shining us on?  Being that high VFR is just as illegal as  not having the O₂.

I'm pretty sure they were IFR.

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, Shadrach said:

I'm pretty sure they were IFR.

I agree... I know the radio work is amateur at best, but if you listen carefully, they were give an IFR clearance while they were still pretty low, around 9000 but after they'd already climbed through a layer of IMC.

[Shadrach]

8 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

That would be technically completely legal, but terminally unwise.  In fact, you could fly your entire trip in IMC in class G without having your IR or talking to ATC and still be technically legal.  Since it's uncontrolled airspace, though, you have no way of knowing if some other guy has the exact same idea as you, and no way to avoid him if he does.

You cannot enter IMC in any airpace without an IR.  The scattered wispy deck they climbed through may have been intensified by the camera. I have seen layers so thin you can clearly see though them in any direction.  I do not know how that shows up on camera.

[gsxrpilot]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on the VMC/IMC/IFR clearance. And wouldn't have even mentioned the video if that's all it was. But the lack of O2 use at FL190 is clearly a violation. And in the comments, he says they were as high as FL210.

It is a nice airplane though. I seriously thought about buying a Velocity before I bought the 252. I still think about it occasionally just for the roomy cockpit.

[ilovecornfields]

It sounded like he picked up an IFR clearance in the air so if he was at FL190 he may have been IFR at that time. I disagree about seeing “no evidence of impairment” but I think that started a lot lower than FL190.

Sometimes I read accident reports where 5000 hour ATPs do something that sounds incredibly dumb and I think “if they can’t even avoid doing that, how do I have a chance?” Then I see an experienced guy like this doing some seemingly dumb things and I think “maybe I do have a chance.”

The evidence is pretty clear that WE are the most dangerous part of the airplane. Dissapointing to see bad decision making glorified on YouTube.

[Marauder]

Both his G5 and his 3GX show 19000.

That G5 sitting at 18,860 may be another violation. Isn’t the tolerance at 29.92 closer than 140 feet at that altitude? And if they did go to 21,000 most IFR certs go to 20k. Wonder if his was certified for higher.

What a bunch of nit pickers we are.


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[Vance Harral]

35 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

You don't need to be on an IFR plan in Class G airspace to fly into IMC.

Turns out that's illegal in practice, as well as unwise.  It's true you can fly IMC in class G without a flight plan or clearance and not violate 91.173.  However, the FAA is officially on record as saying they consider flying IMC in Class G without a clearance to be a violation of 91.13.  A copy of the letter of interpretation is available at https://www.touringmachine.com/images/ifr_checkride/IFR_Class_G.pdf

[jaylw314]

4 minutes ago, Vance Harral said:

Turns out that's illegal in practice, as well as unwise.  It's true you can fly IMC in class G without a flight plan or clearance and not violate 91.173.  However, the FAA is officially on record as saying they consider flying IMC in Class G without a clearance to be a violation of 91.13.  A copy of the letter of interpretation is available at https://www.touringmachine.com/images/ifr_checkride/IFR_Class_G.pdf

Thanks, that's an interesting letter.  I wonder what the writer's first question was, they referenced he had asked whether it is legal to "fly under IFR in Class G without a clearance."  I'm not sure what that means, since if you're flying under IFR by definition you're flying with a clearance, right? 

What is interesting is that the letter states "the NTSB has previously ruled under certain conditions, takeoff into clouds without a clearance or release...was in violation of 91.13".  I'd be interested in what the FAA thought those "certain conditions" were.  Also, I'm not aware that the NTSB has anything to do with adjudicating violations, so it's curious that an FAA lawyer would word it that way.

In any case, I agree, actions that are described as "terminally unwise" are probably in violation of 91.13

[Oldguy]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

That must have been that coca leaf tea   I REALLY like the coca tea there!  It was REALLY great!  What a FANTASTIC idea, I can't believe we don't have this stuff here!!!!!

Actually, I did think the coca leaf tea tasted pretty nice, although your tongue gets numb after a while.

And it settles your stomach!

Worked in La Paz, Bolivia for a while back in 1999-2001. Nothing like stepping out of the airplane at 13,500' at the airport to give you a reality check on just how well you really can handle hypoxia.

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

What a bunch of nit pickers we are.

Call sign and placard on the panel don’t match

Edited January 8, 2019 by RLCarter

[Shadrach]

11 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

Call sign and placard on the panel don’t match

Two registrations, same owner, same serial number:

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N84KJ

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N84749

[RLCarter]

Just nit pick’n

[jaylw314]

38 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Two registrations, same owner, same serial number:

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N84KJ

https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N84749

I'm guessing he purchased the plane from the builder and wanted to change the registration number

[Shadrach]

20 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I'm guessing he purchased the plane from the builder and wanted to change the registration number

He had 2 gear incidents under 84KJ in 2016. A gear up in Dec and a collapse that same July...Talk about getting back on the horse. I'd be asking some serious internal questions if it were me.

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, Oldguy said:

And it settles your stomach!

Worked in La Paz, Bolivia for a while back in 1999-2001. Nothing like stepping out of the airplane at 13,500' at the airport to give you a reality check on just how well you really can handle hypoxia.

I was in La Paz a year ago at Thanksgiving. It was work, not vacation. I had a meeting with the Ministry of Finance CISO in La Paz. The local guy said it was only a "few" blocks away. It was six blocks and in La Paz, the blocks are vertical. Of course I'm wearing a suit and tie. We get to the office building. The CISO's office is on the 7th floor and the elevator is out of service. I almost turned around and went back to the hotel. I'm pretty sure we won the business just because I climbed 7 flights of stairs to his office. 

[Marauder]

He had 2 gear incidents under 84KJ in 2016. A gear up in Dec and a collapse that same July...Talk about getting back on the horse. I'd be asking some serious internal questions if it were me.

I missed the second one.


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[Marauder]

I'm guessing he purchased the plane from the builder and wanted to change the registration number

Yep, that’s what he did.


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[midlifeflyer]

13 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Thanks, that's an interesting letter.  I wonder what the writer's first question was, they referenced he had asked whether it is legal to "fly under IFR in Class G without a clearance."  I'm not sure what that means, since if you're flying under IFR by definition you're flying with a clearance, right? 

What is interesting is that the letter states "the NTSB has previously ruled under certain conditions, takeoff into clouds without a clearance or release...was in violation of 91.13".  I'd be interested in what the FAA thought those "certain conditions" were.  Also, I'm not aware that the NTSB has anything to do with adjudicating violations, so it's curious that an FAA lawyer would word it that way.

In any case, I agree, actions that are described as "terminally unwise" are probably in violation of 91.13

One of the functions of the NTSB, separeate from accident investigation, is to act as an administrative court in FAA certificate actions. Basic process is, FAA says there's a violation, pilot appeals, trial takes place before a single NTSB Administrative Law Judge, full NTSB acts as a Court of Appeals, and then it goes into the federal court system.

There are two fairly well-known cases on Class G IFR. in both, the NTSB said it was technically legal but careless and reckless. In both cases it was a takeoff in fog with the pilot claiming he expected to reach VFR conditions before entering controlled airspace. One of the cases is FAA v. Murphy. The other, which is older than the publicly available database, is the Vance case mentioned in Murphy. 

Hmmm. That's three times  in the past week Class G IFR has come up. I think I have the topic for my next article! Either that or how the FAA adjudication system works.

Edited January 9, 2019 by midlifeflyer