A good day ends badly in El Paso

[jetdriven]

Yes, but the prop shops are  full of props that are over serviced, because  aviation shops don’t do this. But seriously, the prop is sealed up. Grease leaking past the blades is cause for concern, but the grease doesn’t go anywhere. It doesn’t wear out, it’s like the rear end oil in your half ton  Chevy pick up truck... it goes 15 years between changes. 
And now, I guess the new AeroShell grease actually separates inside the hub and then causes problems. It seems like packing it wirh a good grease and  leaving it alone is better than fooling with it. Or at least isn’t worse 

[jaylw314]

10 hours ago, jcovington said:

Interesting on the prices. The numbers Joey gave me yesterday the Hartzell was $500 more than the McCauley. I'll get him to confirm the numbers, I might have misunderstood. 

I like the idea of a hub that can be regreased. I wasn't aware of that feature. 

Joey seemed to like the Hartzell better. Sounds like I need some more clarification from him. 

Jim

Check on the wait times, too.  When I needed a new prop, the Hartzell was 2-3 weeks out, the Macauley was 6-8 weeks out, but obviously that can change 

[skykrawler]

I thought $3500 for the aforementioned overhaul was a bit high.

Nobody has said, and the propeller maintenance experts can correct me.......but I understand the reason to 'grind the blades'  at the recommended TBO is the surface of the blade metal work hardens from flexing.  This, together with stress risers from small scratches and corrosion from failing paint is where cracks can start along the length of the blade.  I would guess more so at the outer half where the flex is higher.   Taking off a few microns of metal takes off the hardened surface and relieves the stress.

[Guest]

It’s hard to imagine this much bad luck with a propeller.  I’m curious if this work has been from just one shop or from several different shops?

Clarence

[jcovington]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

It’s hard to imagine this much bad luck with a propeller.  I’m curious if this work has been from just one shop or from several different shops?

Clarence

The work has been performed by two different shops in two different parts of the country (Georgia and New Mexico). I thought the first time it was a bad shop. Now I think something is wrong with the prop hub. Maybe someone else could fix it, I don't know. I am not willing to bet another $2000 that they can. 

Jim

[jcovington]

6 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

Check on the wait times, too.  When I needed a new prop, the Hartzell was 2-3 weeks out, the Macauley was 6-8 weeks out, but obviously that can change 

Joey told me three weeks on the Hartzell and four on the Macauley. I won't do annual until the end of March so both times are acceptable. 

Jim

[OR75]

 

I replaced the stock McCauley C212 (squared tips) with a 2 blades scimitar a few years back 

about 10 lbs heavier but I also replaced the starter with a lightweight starter so it was a wash from a weight standpoint 

no noticeable difference in performance but the prop looks more modern (or sexier if you wish)

the take off roll feels different. Tough to describe but I d say the prop is less efficient at low speed (first 500 feet ) but more efficient once the plane picks up speed

i got rid off the yellow arc on the tach 

despite having the prop dynamically balanced, I had vibrations in cruise at the settings I used to operate at (23, 2300) . Those vibrations disappeared at higher rpm.

also, the vibrations at 23, 2300 disappeared over time and I suspect it took some time for the counterweights on the shaft to rebalance (my engine was around 1800 hours ) 

The hartzel scimitar gives me the option of installing an IO-390 instead of an IO-360 when I decide to overhaul the engine (I have about 2200 on the engine right now)

[jetdriven]

5 hours ago, skykrawler said:

I thought $3500 for the aforementioned overhaul was a bit high.

Nobody has said, and the propeller maintenance experts can correct me.......but I understand the reason to 'grind the blades'  at the recommended TBO is the surface of the blade metal work hardens from flexing.  This, together with stress risers from small scratches and corrosion from failing paint is where cracks can start along the length of the blade.  I would guess more so at the outer half where the flex is higher.   Taking off a few microns of metal takes off the hardened surface and relieves the stress.

They take off 1/16th of an inch at a time or more, and they hit the blade limits sometimes after one of these grinding operations.  It’s like sharpening your new pencil down to the nub. 

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, jcovington said:

Joey told me three weeks on the Hartzell and four on the Macauley. I won't do annual until the end of March so both times are acceptable. 

Jim

@OR75 pointed out the other benefit to the Hartzell I forgot, it removes the RPM restrictions on the IO-360 with the Macauley blade.

[bradp]

Are there any composite options for the io 360 besides the MT? 
 

Hartzell sounds great and looks good - but I wouldn’t want another 10lb on the nose when my landings tend to have a nose clunk anyway (see separate recent thread on that)...

[ArtVandelay]

I thought $3500 for the aforementioned overhaul was a bit high.

That’s what mine cost (prop and governor).

[ArtVandelay]

Are there any composite options for the io 360 besides the MT? 
 
Hartzell sounds great and looks good - but I wouldn’t want another 10lb on the nose when my landings tend to have a nose clunk anyway (see separate recent thread on that)...

Especially a 2 blade version would be nice (should be lighter with 1 less blade), also makes it easier to the bottom cowl off.

[Cody Stallings]

10 hours ago, jcovington said:

The work has been performed by two different shops in two different parts of the country (Georgia and New Mexico). I thought the first time it was a bad shop. Now I think something is wrong with the prop hub. Maybe someone else could fix it, I don't know. I am not willing to bet another $2000 that they can. 

Jim

I would be willing to venture a guess that your propeller was lubed with AeroShell #6.

The way it looks in the spinner just screams broken down grease. 
Does your Logbook entry state why type of grease was used in the propeller?

Edited February 16, 2020 by Cody Stallings

[carusoam]

I always invite Scott from Kansas when discussing MT props on Mooneys...

@KSMooniac

Best regards,

-a-

[KSMooniac]

I replaced a C212 (OEM 77 J prop) with an MT late in 2010 and would do it again. 12 lbs lighter than that McCauley, which I believe is lighter than the 214 or Top Prop. It is very smooth (0.01 IPS) and has no RPM restrictions. 1" more ground clearance too. Getting weight off the nose of a J is a good thing. I would make the same decision today.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[jcovington]

12 hours ago, Cody Stallings said:

I would be willing to venture a guess that your propeller was lubed with AeroShell #6.

The way it looks in the spinner just screams broken down grease. 
Does your Logbook entry state why type of grease was used in the propeller?

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately, neither entry from last year state the type of grease used. I have followed the discussion of the problems with AeroShell #6 becoming thin and leaking past the seals. I had wondered if that might be the cause of my seal leaks.

What do you do about it once it starts? I am not anxious to throw away a perfectly good prop if this is the cause. At the same time I am not interested in resealing a prop every 10 months like I have done in the last three years.

Jim

[jcovington]

5 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I replaced a C212 (OEM 77 J prop) with an MT late in 2010 and would do it again. 12 lbs lighter than that McCauley, which I believe is lighter than the 214 or Top Prop. It is very smooth (0.01 IPS) and has no RPM restrictions. 1" more ground clearance too. Getting weight off the nose of a J is a good thing. I would make the same decision today.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk
 

Thanks for the report on the MT. I will take a look at them. Did your cruise speed stay the same? I assume you have better climb with the three blades.

Jim

[KSMooniac]

I think cruise is same, perhaps slightly better, compared to the 212 prop. My belief is the 214 is better than the 212 so I'm not sure if the MT gives the same cruise speed as that one.

But getting the weight off the nose and having a very smooth engine and prop is a very good thing. Less vibration = less fatigue of airframe, instruments and people.

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[Cody Stallings]

3 hours ago, jcovington said:

Thanks for the information. Unfortunately, neither entry from last year state the type of grease used. I have followed the discussion of the problems with AeroShell #6 becoming thin and leaking past the seals. I had wondered if that might be the cause of my seal leaks.

What do you do about it once it starts? I am not anxious to throw away a perfectly good prop if this is the cause. At the same time I am not interested in resealing a prop every 10 months like I have done in the last three years.

Jim

Give me a shout sometime.

Shop# 870-208-8882

Cell# 870-208-5198

[jcovington]

2 hours ago, Cody Stallings said:

Give me a shout sometime.

Shop# 870-208-8882

Cell# 870-208-5198

Thanks. I'll give you a call Monday morning. 

Jim

[jcovington]

A status update. After talking to Cody on Monday and Joey a couple of times this week I have decided to have Cody repair my prop. He believes that an incorrect oring or the wrong grease was used during the last repair. 

Today I spent the morning removing the prop. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by jcovington

[jcovington]

All ready for the trip to Cody on Monday. 

[LANCECASPER]

It's a lot easier to remove the prop right side up.

[jcovington]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

It's a lot easier to remove the prop right side up.

Thanks. I couldn't get it to rotate. That does look better. 

Jim

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, jcovington said:

All ready for the trip to Cody on Monday. 

Woooowww, I'm breaking out in cold sweats just thinking about that!  That would be a nerve-wracking drive...