Brittain Autopilot Systems

[Browncbr1]

2 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

We are not on the same page.  The G5 heading has no vacuum, right?  How does it integrate with a Brittain vaccum system is my question...

Yea, vacuum is irrelevant for receiving left and right heading signal.   The gad29b must be used in conjunction with the G5 in order to get left/right analog signals from the G5.  Jerry at Brittain is rushing to send final documentation to Garmin.   If you look at the Cessna AP schematic for the gad29b in revision 9 install manual, it will be basically identical to that.   The Brittain HSI adapter may or may not be needed. Waiting for Jerry's final confirmation.  

[MyNameIsNobody]

Just now, Browncbr1 said:

Yea, vacuum is irrelevant for receiving left and right heading signal.   The gad29b must be used in conjunction with the G5 in order to get left/right analog signals from the G5.  Jerry at Brittain is rushing to send final documentation to Garmin.   If you look at the Cessna AP schematic for the gad29b in revision 9 install manual, it will be basically identical to that.   The Brittain HSI adapter may or may not be needed. Waiting for Jerry's final confirmation.  

That is beyond my pay grade  Technical capability.  It sounds like you are saying that an analog signal left right (without vacuum) can be used to run the Brittain (Similar to the Accu-Trak) vs. the vacuum heading bug DG unit that I have now?  I wonder if a GNC300XL can drive the G5 heading?  This is interesting, but I am (obviously) a lay-man...

[Browncbr1]

41 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

That is beyond my pay grade  Technical capability.  It sounds like you are saying that an analog signal left right (without vacuum) can be used to run the Brittain (Similar to the Accu-Trak) vs. the vacuum heading bug DG unit that I have now?  I wonder if a GNC300XL can drive the G5 heading?  This is interesting, but I am (obviously) a lay-man...

There is a little confusion.   The only thing that touches the vacuum system is the b-501 valve. Both accutrak and accuflite utilize the b-502 valve.   Everything else in the accutrack or accuflite are electrical connections.     The accuflite receives a low voltage left or right signal from a heading bug source.   The accutrak receives a low voltage left or right signal from a Nav source.   

If your GNC (or the CDI you are using) has analog outputs, then it can deliver left/right signals to an accutrak.  I think It only has a digital signal output though. (Such as NEMA).   In that case, you would need a something like a gad29b or porcine device to make it work.  (Though not legal in certified aircraft).  I wouldn't check your CDI wiring schematic to see if it has AP Left and AP Right pins.  If yes, then that's all you need.   I'm not sure which nav head you have .

My accutrak receives left/right signals directly from a ki-209.    Not the navcom.   

[MyNameIsNobody]

2 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

There is a little confusion.   The only thing that touches the vacuum system is the b-501 valve. Both accutrak and accuflite utilize the b-502 valve.   Everything else in the accutrack or accuflite are electrical connections.     The accuflite receives a low voltage left or right signal from a heading bug source.   The accutrak receives a low voltage left or right signal from a Nav source.   

If your GNC (or the CDI you are using) has analog outputs, then it can deliver left/right signals to an accutrak.  I think It only has a digital signal output though. (Such as NEMA).   In that case, you would need a something like a gad29b or porcine device to make it work.  (Though not legal in certified aircraft).  I wouldn't check your CDI wiring schematic to see if it has AP Left and AP Right pins.  If yes, then that's all you need.   I'm not sure which nav head you have .

My accutrak receives left/right signals directly from a ki-209.    Not the navcom.   

Yes, My GNC has analog L/R that drives the Accu-Trak.  I thought the Nav Head on the DI for the Accu-Flite had vacuum, but appears that the head is driven by electrical inputs...So it would appear the Accu-Flite COULD function with the Garmin G5?

[Browncbr1]

21 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Yes, My GNC has analog L/R that drives the Accu-Trak.  I thought the Nav Head on the DI for the Accu-Flite had vacuum, but appears that the head is driven by electrical inputs...So it would appear the Accu-Flite COULD function with the Garmin G5?

If your DG has heading bug with L&R electrical outputs, then that's all that matters.   Yes, the G5 can drive an accuflite via a gad29b installation.  The G5 can also drive the accutrak at the same time and has integrated GPSS.  

[HRM]

8 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

We are not on the same page.  The G5 heading has no vacuum, right?  How does it integrate with a Brittain vaccum system is my question...

As others have vaguely pointed out, the heading information input to the Brittain is a voltage, not vacuum. The Brittain uses vacuum only for the servo activation.

Of course, if you have installed (a) G5(s) so that you can eliminate the vacuum pump from your Mooney, then this is moot.

My plan is a pair of G5's so that I can eliminate the vacuum instruments. I plan to retain the pump for the autopilot and the step. If I lose the pump I just lose convenience. I am toying with the idea of a 12 VDC pump just for the Brittain.

[MyNameIsNobody]

12 hours ago, HRM said:

As others have vaguely pointed out, the heading information input to the Brittain is a voltage, not vacuum. The Brittain uses vacuum only for the servo activation.

Of course, if you have installed (a) G5(s) so that you can eliminate the vacuum pump from your Mooney, then this is moot.

My plan is a pair of G5's so that I can eliminate the vacuum instruments. I plan to retain the pump for the autopilot and the step. If I lose the pump I just lose convenience. I am toying with the idea of a 12 VDC pump just for the Brittain.

Thanks.  I had “Gotten there”, but am “thick” so the further clarification is good.  I am interested in the Gyro-free world (Horizon and Heading) too.  The Heading does process(sp) so that would be eliminated.  When they “die” they go.  Glad to know that it can drive the Brittain systems I have installed.

Edited November 9, 2017 by MyNameIsNobody

[211º]

Flew for the first time in a while and was able to test the altitude hold and the HDG on the B-6 autopilot.

I was quite happy to see the system hold altitude (after I learned the proper sequence to implement it). Test flight at 2,500 and it held within about 50 feet the whole time... except when I was testing the altitude hold and using and changing the HDG dial on the B-6. During turns, the system would lose about 200 feet of altitude (then gain it back after the turn).

It seems that the AP HDG works when turning left, but has trouble coming out of the turn and trouble turning right, but is ok coming out of right turns. This leads me to think that there is an issue somewhere on the right side of the PC system.

It’d be “nice” if it was simply the boot... and not a vacuum line that terminates somewhere between the firewall and instrument panel.


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[MyNameIsNobody]

Bump.  Did Jerry get with Garmin prior to his passing?  I would like to replace my fading DI with a G5, but want it to function with the AccuFlite.  How do you accomplish this?  VFR flight NOT IFR.

[thinwing]

End of era..nothing lasts forever..

[KSMooniac]

Dang.

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[MyNameIsNobody]

Hopefully someone will buy the rights to the legacy parts for Brittain.  Not holding my breath, but not freaking out.  Glad I just had all tubing and systems updated a couple years ago so all are functioning as they should.

[MyNameIsNobody]

6 hours ago, thinwing said:

End of era..nothing lasts forever..

This IS “news” That I am very sorry to hear.  Sorry for me initial “snark” ThinWing.

Edited April 13, 2018 by MyNameIsNobody

[Hank]

40 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

This is not “news” as this was announced quite a while ago.

The sale was announced a while ago. This looks like a new announcement of failure to sell, followed by hibernation.

[MyNameIsNobody]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

The sale was announced a while ago. This looks like a new announcement of failure to sell, followed by hibernation.

Seeing the 4/9 date.  O.K. So is Brittain the only one that could pursue certification for the G5 with AccuTrak and AccuFlite?  This is just the end of the line for ability to integrate?  That is really unfortunate.  This would of been a great upgrade/solution for me.

[MyNameIsNobody]

I am going to reach out to Garmin and ask about any possible pathway...

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 11/8/2017 at 2:25 PM, Browncbr1 said:

Yea, vacuum is irrelevant for receiving left and right heading signal.   The gad29b must be used in conjunction with the G5 in order to get left/right analog signals from the G5.  Jerry at Brittain is rushing to send final documentation to Garmin.   If you look at the Cessna AP schematic for the gad29b in revision 9 install manual, it will be basically identical to that.   The Brittain HSI adapter may or may not be needed. Waiting for Jerry's final confirmation.  

I wonder if Jerry got this done?

[Browncbr1]

9 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

I wonder if Jerry got this done?

The drawings were done and I posted them on here somewhere.   I haven’t talked to garmin though.  

[MyNameIsNobody]

2 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

The drawings were done and I posted them on here somewhere.   I haven’t talked to garmin though.  

Any idea what thread the drawings were posted on?

[Browncbr1]

1 minute ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Any idea what thread the drawings were posted on?

Here they are.  G5 primary custom setup.  AC signal. Positive is right.  15v excitation. .225v/degree.  Confirm 4.5v for 20 degrees deflection on the DG gain box.  

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdf

G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdf

[MyNameIsNobody]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

Here they are.  G5 primary custom setup.  AC signal. Positive is right.  15v excitation. .225v/degree.  Confirm 4.5v for 20 degrees deflection on the DG gain box.  

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdf

G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdf

You currently have the dual G5 set-up in your plane?  Are you not highly “motivated” to have this certified, or did you accomplish through other means?

[MyNameIsNobody]

2 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

Here they are.  G5 primary custom setup.  AC signal. Positive is right.  15v excitation. .225v/degree.  Confirm 4.5v for 20 degrees deflection on the DG gain box.  

Brittain G5 Dwg Rev A.pdf

G5 Hook Up, No Transformers.pdf

Aircraft Spruce now shows the G5 and GAD29b on their website with certified autopilot listing.  Brittain is not on the listing...

Edited April 13, 2018 by MyNameIsNobody

[MyNameIsNobody]

Called Garmin’s tech support number.  Started with certified and he quickly routed my to experimental.  Spoke with Mike.  He explained that it is a marketing and engineering decision on what auto pilots are included.  (Squeaky wheel?). He said he could sent to marketing if I emailed he would forward.  His email is G3XpertG3expert@garmin.com

 

[flyboy0681]

13 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Called Garmin’s tech support number.  Started with certified and he quickly routed my to experimental.  Spoke with Mike.  He explained that it is a marketing and engineering decision on what auto pilots are included.  (Squeaky wheel?). He said he could sent to marketing if I emailed he would forward.  His email is G3XpertG3expert@garmin.com

 

Seems to me the certifications would come based on the number of planes in a particular fleet. Obviously the #1 spot would be reserved for the C-172 and derivatives,  then the Cherokee family and so on. Where does Mooney fit into the scheme in terms of number of airframes still flying?

[outermarker]

I still have a AccuTrak and AccuFlite system I'd like to keep working.