Mooney down KSAF

[midlifeflyer]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:17 AM, Shadrach said:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kgyr/KGYR2-Gnd-Twr-Nov-26-2018-2230Z.mp3?fbclid=IwAR1MSX_Ne8-fiX3e0ArFgab4dC6GV1_w39UqX2D227sD5fpTxAzc8FI_QC4

 

This guy was way rustier than his new plane... starts at 15:00. Sad day...

I haven't been following this thread but came across this today. I stopped listening when ATC asked him if he was going to take off with his speed brakes deployed. It was all too painful

[MATTS875]

Very sad. Prayers for his family

[steingar]

Basically, wat everyone is saying is not only do I have to know and obey all the FARs, but I have to be a lapdog to ATC every time I fly for them to consider me a safe pilot. And we wonder why we pilots are becoming an endangered species.

[DualRatedFlyer]

27 minutes ago, steingar said:

Basically, wat everyone is saying is not only do I have to know and obey all the FARs, but I have to be a lapdog to ATC every time I fly for them to consider me a safe pilot. And we wonder why we pilots are becoming an endangered species.

Not sure what obeying all FARs have to do with the conversation, but yes - please obey all FARs. That's not really a negotiable part.

Enhancing safety for yourself and everyone else by using flight following is just a personal preference that is considered an industry best practice, not a requirement. 

I don't know of any pilots who have hung up their headsets because they have to follow the FARs or have been encouraged to use flight following. Have heard of several pilots with God complexions, antiauthority traits, and unwillingness to learn that have met their fate.  Guess endangered can have several meanings.  

[Shadrach]

17 hours ago, steingar said:

Basically, wat everyone is saying is not only do I have to know and obey all the FARs, but I have to be a lapdog to ATC every time I fly for them to consider me a safe pilot. And we wonder why we pilots are becoming an endangered species.

No...no one has said that, although knowing and obeying are highly recommended. People are rejecting your premise that ADSB is a substitution for flight following.  By the way, flight following is advisory only. Any pilot receiving advisories, but not in airspace requiring separation services, is free to cancel if they don't like what they've been asked to do (perfectly legal but likely not very smart).  You're not a lapdog to ATC when receiving advisories, they are working with/for you and they make suggestions, they don't give orders. As in "Mooney 39Q, traffic 11o'clock, 6300', opposite direction. They're not talking to me.  SUGGEST right turn heading 230"

Edited December 3, 2018 by Shadrach
@Midlifeflyer likes to bust my balls

[midlifeflyer]

3 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

No...no one has said that, although knowing and obeying are a highly recommended. People are rejecting your premise that ADSB is a substitution for flight following.  By the way, flight following is advisory only. Any pilot receiving advisories, but not in controlled airspace is free to cancel if they don't like what they've been asked to do (perfectly legal but likely not very smart).  You're not a lapdog to ATC when receiving advisories, they are working with/for you and they make suggestions, they don't give orders. As in "Mooney 39Q, traffic 11o'clock, 6500', opposite direction. They're's not talking to me.  SUGGEST right turn heading 230"

Not too much of that above 1200 AGL anymore.

[Shadrach]

7 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Not too much of that above 1200 AGL anymore.

If you really wanted to zing me you should have said that ATC services are not available outside of controlled airspace...which is true. I will edit my post to be more technically correct. Edit window properly reflects reason for edit...

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Shadrach

[kerry]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 1:32 PM, Marauder said:

Very sobering. His comment about it being noisy in the plane makes me wonder if he was flying without a headset.

When I was a kid flying with my Dad in his Mooney he never used a headset.  Hand mic and overhead speaker.  I also know a lot of old timers that fly without headsets.  My guess would be he was not using a headset.

[EricJ]

24 minutes ago, kerry said:

When I was a kid flying with my Dad in his Mooney he never used a headset.  Hand mic and overhead speaker.  I also know a lot of old timers that fly without headsets.  My guess would be he was not using a headset.

When I learned to fly headsets were for the rich elite.   They were way too expensive for the common GA pilot and everybody used the hand mic and overhead speaker.

Of course, I have tinnitus and hearing loss now.   I'm sure they're unrelated... 

Since this guy had traveled to pick up this airplane it's possible he either didn't bring a headset with him or it didn't work in the airplane.

 

[M016576]

5 hours ago, EricJ said:

When I learned to fly headsets were for the rich elite.   They were way too expensive for the common GA pilot and everybody used the hand mic and overhead speaker.

Of course, I have tinnitus and hearing loss now.   I'm sure they're unrelated... 

Since this guy had traveled to pick up this airplane it's possible he either didn't bring a headset with him or it didn't work in the airplane.

 

Makes me wonder if head set prices have risen in parallel to hull prices, or at some exponentially smaller rate....  $1000.00 for a pair of $25.00 noise cancelling headphones sure does seem excessive.. but when you compare that to a $780,000 new mooney... a downright steal!

Edited December 3, 2018 by M016576

[Andy95W]

5 hours ago, EricJ said:

When I learned to fly headsets were for the rich elite.   They were way too expensive for the common GA pilot and everybody used the hand mic and overhead speaker.

I got my private license in 1989/90.  Nobody wore headsets.  After being stationed in Korea for a year and a half, I got back to the US and started Instrument training in 1992.  My instructor wouldn't fly with me until I got a headset.

It's still a bit unreal to me how quickly everything changed.  A big drop in headset prices, as well as portable intercoms, helped a lot.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, M016576 said:

Makes me wonder if head set prices have risen in parallel to hull prices, or at some exponentially smaller rate....  $1000.00 for a pair of $25.00 noise cancelling headphones sure does seem excessive.. but when you compare that to a $780,000 new mooney... a downright steal!

The best of the available headsets are still a fraction of the price of a set of hearing aids.  I’d like to avoid the hearing aids.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The best of the available headsets are still a fraction of the price of a set of hearing aids.  I’d like to avoid the hearing aids.

Clarence

So true.  And the cheapest are better than nothing. $100 for new and eBay is replete with tested, pre owned sets for <$50.  Listening to that recording, I think maybe this gentleman figured that he could just step back into Aviation where he last left off (whenever that was). Lack of planning or even knowing what to be prepared for can be overwhelming. Being overwhelmed leads to less than optimal performance. Unfortunately it’s kind of a negative feedback cycle. Mistakes really stack up if one continues in the face clear evidence that one should rethink the endeavor.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

On 11/29/2018 at 6:35 PM, Hank said:

I started lessons in 2006, and was taught this way (three decades after the 80s). Now I "sometimes" have a tablet with me; it may be in the baggage area. My spendy 430W gets me where I need to go, except when I use pilotage.

And sometimes when I have the tablet up front with me, the battery dies and it ain't no good then.

I'm not sure if the speakers in the ceiling work any more or not,  and there is certainly no handheld mic anymore. But the clip for it is there on the left windshield post, it's a perfect fit for a AA Maglite.  

I learned to fly in the late 90s, and there was no shortage of this sort of phraseology then either.  It seems that is slowly being supplanted by the phraseology in the AIM.  I happen to associate that sort of phraseology with the 80's because I spent a lot of time as a kid in the right seat of various aircraft during that time listening to transmissions at non towered airports.  I feel like folks were a bit less precise with their phraseology back then (especially GA pilots). I was taught that traffic controllers determine the active runway and that using the term adds nothing to the transmission nor is it in that AIM. State call sign, position, Intentions, and ready to taxi. If ground knows you're a NW VFR departure, they will give taxi instructions to the runway of their choice.  If one is not departing the airport but wishes to go to a part of the airport that involves taxiing in a movement area the call is the same except the intentions are "reposition to to Executive Air maintenance hangar" or wherever it is one wants to go.  At non-towered airports, there is no active runway. There might be a preferred no wind runway but there is no active.  Saying that one is "clear of the active" is a misnomer and it also lacks specificity.  I've flown into non towered airports with as many as 3 runways and there are many occasion times when cross runways are used by different aircraft with in a small window of time. This can be confusing on the CTAF. Best to identify the runway that you're clear of. It takes no more effort and actually gives specific information.  If there is no traffic in the area, I tend to hold my announcements to a minimum. I have two little kids and get plenty of practice talking when no one is listening.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Shadrach

[midlifeflyer]

21 hours ago, Shadrach said:

If you really wanted to zing me you should have said that ATC services are not available outside of controlled airspace...which is true. I will edit my post to be more technically correct. Edit window properly reflects reason for edit...

 

I like more subtle zingers  . You obviously knew what I meant.

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

I like more subtle zingers  . You obviously knew what I meant.

 I could say the same about you sir, but it didn’t stop you from calling me out on my technically incorrect air space terminology!   Thank you for doing your part to make sure that all tees are crossed and I’s are dotted.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Shadrach