Completely Confused

[c131fr]

Hello.  I am a prospective Mooney buyer- I've never owned one, but I flew a 201 back 20 years ago when I was getting my license and loved it.  But I'm completely confused about the Acclaim line.

So the new Acclaim is 280hp, but the "old" -S can be had with a 310hp engine.  Yet when I talked to Mooney, they claimed the new Acclaim "is noticeably faster and more efficient in nearly all flight environments" than the -S with 310hp.  How?  What's different?  The left door makes it go fast and burn lest fuel?  I get double talk from the Mooney guy, so I'm asking you all.  Why would I pay $800k for an Ultra rather than $600k on a 150 hour 310hp Type S?  Avionics upgrade?  I'm paying 200 large for a door and newer G1000?  I must be missing something.

 

Oh, and by the way, I travel between Chicago and Atlanta quite a bit, which is why the new airplane makes sense.  ORD and ATL aren't my favorite places to jump on a commercial jet...

[gsengle]

Because what makes it go fast is a turbo to sustain power at altitude. The 310 hp is full throttle which for the most part is only for the takeoff roll and climb.


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[c131fr]

So you are saying the 310hp STC is the Ovation engine?  I thought it was the same Acclaim turbo engine with 310 hp.  That would explain it!   Thank you.

[MIm20c]

You can get the 310 stc on the new ones too. With the redesigns etc the savings would need to be 350ish for me to bite. 

[gsengle]

Nope I said nothing similar...


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[MIm20c]

2 minutes ago, c131fr said:

So you are saying the 310hp STC is the Ovation engine?  I thought it was the same Acclaim turbo engine with 310 hp.  That would explain it!   Thank you.

Faster rpm and fuel add the 30hp. Worth the money 7-8k? in my opinion. 

[c131fr]

Sigh...  So which is it?  The 310hp STC is still turbocharged?  Confusion is getting worse...  You get better take off and initial climb performance, but everything else is the same? 

[MIm20c]

Both the Ovation (NA) and Acclaim (turbo) come with 280 hp from the factory with the prop turning 2500 rpm. With a spring change internal to the govener, increase fuel flow, the stc, and some adjusting both can spin 2700 rpm and 310 hp. 

[c131fr]

Thank you.  That cleared it up completely.  So the new airframe modifications, composite section, etc. on the Acclaim Ultra would indeed be an improvement over the Type S because the 310hp is just a governor mod.  Makes sense.  Thank you again.

[mike_elliott]

Who are you speaking with at Mooney, may I ask?

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, c131fr said:

Thank you.  That cleared it up completely.  So the new airframe modifications, composite section, etc. on the Acclaim Ultra would indeed be an improvement over the Type S because the 310hp is just a governor mod.  Makes sense.  Thank you again.

I can't see any of that adding 1 knot. In fact the extra pilot's side step may cost a knot or two.

[Chris K]

Sounds like you need to talk to a better rep. from Mooney.  Try Delta Aviation and ask for Dave - they are a Mooney dealer and Dave is a Mooney guy through and through - knows better than just about anyone else out there.  He helped me get my Eagle and am very happy with the results.  I am also located in Chicago and would be more than happy to take you for a demo flight - the newer airframe is much, much sleeker than the old J model.

[c131fr]

Lance Phillips was the guy I talked to, I think.  He was at Oshkosh where I talked with him.  I was talking about the fact that 242 knots was a lot of speed for only 280hp.  He mentioned that an earlier generation had as much as 310hp, but the new Acclaim Ultra was faster than the older models in most environments.  Actually he said the Acclaim Ultra was the fastest single engine production airplane ever produced, period.  I found a couple Acclaim Type S's on the internet that had 310hp for $200k less, which is why I brought it up.

To be honest, when I talked to him I was actually looking at a Cirrus-  but I just can't see myself buying one of those.  Not sure what it is.  Looks like a kit plane, I guess...   The Cessna looks sexier, but it IS a kit plane, so... (sorry Cessna, but it's a freaking Lancair to my eye)  Anyway, the Mooney option stuck in my head ever since, but I was confused about the 310hp.  If you buy a new Ovation Ultra, it comes with the 310hp standard now, btw. 

I thought the steps were retractable?  More research needed...

Edited September 23, 2018 by c131fr

[BillC]

2 hours ago, MIm20c said:

Both the Ovation (NA) and Acclaim (turbo) come with 280 hp from the factory with the prop turning 2500 rpm. With a spring change internal to the govener, increase fuel flow, the stc, and some adjusting both can spin 2700 rpm and 310 hp. 

I believe you need a new prop as well.

[mike_elliott]

Give Lee Drumheller a ring or as suggested, Mark or Dave Woods. Its my understanding you can get the 310 HP STC also for the Acclaim Ultra, I have flown a couple that have had it done.

PM me if you want the contact info to get your answers.

[MIm20c]

Mark and Dave are amazing. Are new buyers limited by regional constraints?

[MIm20c]

57 minutes ago, BillC said:

I believe you need a new prop as well.

The top prop is the same. If you have an older plane, pre 2005?, that will need to be upgraded as well. 

[bonal]

All I know is if I had such a budget to be in the market for a new ultra after seeing one and sitting in it at our little west coast gathering in Paso Robles and then looking at the flight aware profile of Richards flight home to Arizona I would not think twice between a not quite new (needs a PPI) etc. Mooney and that beautiful new Ultra. 

[Niko182]

Mooney Offers an STC for all TCM variants of the 550 engine from depending if you have an EAGLE (244HP) or an Older Ovation (280HP)
or a Regular Acclaim none type S (280HP). What the STC does is increase the Prop speed from 2500 to 2700rpm allowing the engine to create
310HP instead of the previos lesser amount of HP. In cruise, it doesn't really change anything but it significantly increases the takeoff and climb performance.
the Acclaim ultra won't be faster, but it will be significantly nicer.

the fact is for 200K more,
- you get a spare door (way safer, and way easier to get in and out of with 2 people)

- the g1000 NXI (brand new so garmin will support this for give or take at least the next 15 years. looks like garmin is starting to stop supporting the original g1000's that the Ovation 2GX and the Bravo GX had)

- Warranty

- the dimensions of the new ultras are a bit more spacious on the new ultras
 

no matter if the acclaim is rated at 280 or 310 hp, at 25000ft, it won't go faster than 242 knots, and I doubt any of those will hit that unless its at ISO temps and you have 40 gallons with one light person and no bags.

[BillC]

5 hours ago, MIm20c said:

The top prop is the same. If you have an older plane, pre 2005?, that will need to be upgraded as well. 

Yeah, I'm pre 2005. Good to know. Thanks.

[carusoam]

More research is not what you need....

A good visit is what you need!

Sitting in front of the new glass panel displays is a comforting feeling...

Watching a known MSer speed through the various pages was a blast.  

The normally aspirated 310hp O1 is pretty spectacular. 

If I were to move up the food chain, the 310hp Acclaim would be on the top of my list...

have no fear about the wind drag related to small things hanging in the wind... when you fly in the flight levels, the air density is less than half of what it is at C172 levels...

Lee Drumheller has been great about combining MSers with the factory owned planes...

1fr,  The Acclaim power plant is called Turbo-normalized... it has a higher CR than the usual turbocharged Mooneys, But is slightly lower than the IO550 in the Ovation.  It is an efficient airplane with an engine that will still run with a turbo challenge at altitude... and it has two turbos....

call Lee... If you want, I can call Lee for you... (calling Mooney about buying an Acclaim would be great). Lance Phillips can be pretty helpful as well.

Will you be wanting FIKI ice protection with your Acclaim, sir?

 

We could go from completely confused, to completely enamored, in about an hour... 15minutes from being on the ground to being in the FLs...

PP thoughts only, still not a plane salesguy...

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

9 hours ago, c131fr said:

....  Actually he said the Acclaim Ultra was the fastest single engine production airplane ever produced, period.  .....

I can think of several that will out-run an Ultra by, oh, a thousand knots or so.   

[carusoam]

Poetic license in use...

or some of the details may have been.... less memorable...

• Fastest
• Factory built
• Four seat
• TN’d (for the O... exchange TN’d for NA) aka piston powered...
• Airplane
• Ever

Until they add the turbine version...  

Where is Rocket Engineering with that Mooney turbine kit?

Go Mooney!

-a-

[Bryan]

11 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I can think of several that will out-run an Ultra by, oh, a thousand knots or so.   

I think what he meant was: 
"... fastest production civilian single-engine piston "

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 minute ago, Bryan said:

I think what he meant was: 
"... fastest production civilian single-engine piston "

Of course you’re right.   

It’s all in the details:   Buzz Aldrin claims he was the first man named Buzz to walk on the moon.