All American Aircraft

[M20F]

Anyone have some feedback on http://www.allamericanaircraft.com/default.htm from reviewing the forum postings seems to be generally positive. 

Any reccomendations for a pre-buy in that area?

 

[Cruiser]

Seems they only want to sell above average planes and you will probably have to pay above average price to get one.

Not a complaint......... just sayin'

[Rustler]

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[Parker_Woodruff]

They've typically got no problem flying a plane to Don Maxwell (GGG) for pre-buy.  That's who I'd use.  Otherwise use Dugosh (ERV).

 

(originally logged in as Rustler.)

[Parker_Woodruff]

double post

[PTK]

Quote: M20F

Anyone have some feedback on http://www.allamericanaircraft.com/default.htm from reviewing the forum postings seems to be generally positive. 

Any reccomendations for a pre-buy in that area?

[Skywarrior]

PK -

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with AAA. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you did not do your deal with David McGee. If you had, your experience prob. would have been much better.

 

Chuck M.

[LFOD]

I had an excellent experience with them. They were very straightforward with me and I feel like I got a very good M20J at a fair price.  The involvement of Don Maxwell in my deal only made it more pleasant. 

[fantom]

All American is a first class operation, and has been for many years. Some of their customers....not so much.

Oh, and a PPI by either Maxwell or Dugosh will also be first class, but understand that both of them do a lot of work with/for All American.

[DonMuncy]

Both Jimmy Garrison and David McGee are first class. I have never heard either of them convey information which was not technically and actually accurate. I bought my plane from them 11 years ago and would have no hesitation in going back to them.

Don 

[John Pleisse]

I committed to selling my plane to Jimmy, then my A36 prebuy went sour and I took my 201 back. Jimmy took care of my plane, gave it back when I asked and to this day, I owe him for a ferry pilot. He is fair, straight forward and if a seller or buyer flakes, he is cool and remembers the big piture. We all have a compass, his points in the right direction.

[carusoam]

AAA + Don Maxwell...  Use the experts when you don't have the expertise yourself....Or when your looking for someone to back up your choices.

Remember, it is still a used vehicle.  Once you have signed for it, it is yours.  Dave McGee will point this out to you prior to you signing for it.  No tricks no hassles, unfortunately no warranty.......

Best regards,

-a-

[231Pilot]

I bought my first Mooney, a 67 M20C from them in 2000, and my second, an 82 M20J in 2006.  I dealt with both Jimmy and David and they are first class guys.  David and his wife brought me the J and flew the C back to San Antonio on a very cold December weekend.    I had them as house guests and they are welcome to return any time they want. It was 17 degrees when we test flew the J.  It had transponder and autopilot problems on delivery and they took care of it.  I would recommend them anytime.

[N33GG]

Two thumbs up for All American Aircraft.  

Two thumbs up for Don Maxwell.

 

[Rustler]

Bought my '80J from AAA and can't think of anything about the deal that wasn't top notch. Everyone was straight forward, honest, and as helpful as could be. The aircraft remains superb to this day and I've had virtually no trouble with it. Two thumbs up.

[PTK]

The decision to purchase an airplane needs to have very strong foundations in this concept called confidence. Especially a used airplane which, I assume, is what we are talking about here.  Confidence in the airplane you are buying and in the people representing it.  In a used airplane the only thing you have to go by is its history as recorded in the logs.  It is the only thing you have representing the airplane to confidently trust.  So how do we go about maximizing this confidence?  We start with an airplane that has solid maintenance history by trustworthy real experts. i.e. Dugosh, Maxwell, etc etc. (there are others) and it is being sold by its owner not a used sales outfit.  We trust the owner more than the used salesman because the owner cared enough for his airplane to give it  the best maintenance and service as depicted in the logs.  We don't start by the used airplane saleman! Though most are the nicest folks on a personal level, professionally they are not looking for the buyer they are looking to sell the airplane.  We as buyers should not rush and be swept up by sweet talk, but should take our time and actually scrutinize the airplane and its maintenance looking for reasons NOT to buy it.  

This is how you buy an airplane you can have confidence in.

I have the utmost respect for Mr. Ronnie Kramer and Dugosh as well as Mr. Don Maxwell.  Both on a personal and professional level.  The reason I decided to buy my Mooney was because of Dugosh signatures and stamps all over the logs.  15 straight years' worth.  I couldn't have made a better decision.  Now due to distance I utilize a reputable MSC closer to me.

I'm sure the folks at AAA are the nicest people on a personal level.  Pofessionally as well they are probably very nice folks.  Just don' place blind trust and send them any deposit funds directly. Utilize an escrow agent. Also have them annual the airplane at a MSC of your choice.

[Parker_Woodruff]

@ Allsmiles:  Seems to me that AAA sells many planes that have been maintained by Don Maxwell, Dugosh, etc.  I happen to have instructed in many of them as part of insurance transition training or delivering the aircraft to the new owners.

Everyone has to do their own due diligence when buying.  Whether from a dealer or an individual.

When evaluating the value of a potential purchase, I price a lot into the history of the plane.  I paid a few thousand more than I wanted to for my M20J back in 2009 due to the owner's meticulous care of the plane.  That airplane is now flying with another owner and has accumulated more than 7200 hours on the airframe.

As a buyer you have the final responsibility of weeding bad airplanes out.  It seems to me that I have received an adequate picture of the overall history of planes from Jimmy and David on several occasions.

At the end of the day, you shouldn't get burned if you set up the purchase on your terms.

-Purchase price

-Pay for prepurchase/annual

-Seller deducts a/w squawks from purchase price

-close the deal.

Getting sellers to work on these terms can be a challenge.  Sometimes they won't, and you'll have to walk.

[PTK]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

@ Allsmiles:  Seems to me that AAA sells many planes that have been maintained by Don Maxwell, Dugosh, etc.  I happen to have instructed in many of them as part of insurance transition training or delivering the aircraft to the new owners.

Everyone has to do their own due diligence when buying.  Whether from a dealer or an individual.

When evaluating the value of a potential purchase, I price a lot into the history of the plane.  I paid a few thousand more than I wanted to for my M20J back in 2009 due to the owner's meticulous care of the plane.  That airplane is now flying with another owner and has accumulated more than 7200 hours on the airframe.

As a buyer you have the final responsibility of weeding bad airplanes out.  It seems to me that I have received an adequate picture of the overall history of planes from Jimmy and David on several occasions.

At the end of the day, you shouldn't get burned if you set up the purchase on your terms.

-Purchase price

-Pay for prepurchase/annual

-Seller deducts a/w squawks from purchase price

-close the deal.

Getting sellers to work on these terms can be a challenge.  Sometimes they won't, and you'll have to walk.

[Barry]

Well ... you cannot take past maintenance always at face value, either. I purchased my plane from All American. The 1st plane I looked at and had a down payment on was signed off for years by a well known Texas Mooney MSC. It had just been annualed by that MSC rock-star. On pre-buy, my mechanic discovered that the engine was shot. All American offered to give my down payment back ... but they did have another plane in their inventory that I had been looking at before deciding on the first. We did a pre-buy on that plane, it was in great shape. I've had it for 2 years and I've been very happy.

     If you are buying a plane, maintenance history is something that should carefully looked at. But remember, the MSC rock starts don't actually do the annual. They hire other mechanics who work for them to do that. If they have hired a mechanic that may not stay there very long, but does your plane in the meantime ... you may be in trouble.

     In that case, it is good to have a sale person you can count on to make things right. We all know about our sales friend in Florida. I have also heard of other sales by owners which are equally nasty. I believe it takes a team of people to assure you are getting your moneys worth and the purchase goes smoothly. For those of us who don't have a certification in aircraft mechanics, a good sales person who stakes their reputation on the sale of a good aircraft is a good team member. These guys won't put a bad plane in their fleet until they have done all of the leg work.

     As a matter of fact, I was told by Jimmy at All American that they had trusted the maintainence record trail of the plane I did not buy and bought it on that premise that a Mooney MSC rock-star had been maintaining the plane. He said that it was a mistake many people make and it was gonna cost him a LOT of money to rectify the problem ... and it did.

[richardheitzman]

To me, and I have not taken the plunge yet, but I am looking, the prebuy is critical to determin the value and condition of the plane, but how do you weed through all the "crappy" planes to find the "gem"? You go to a trusted source. I think AAA and Jimmy do a lot of work to show the best planes and that is the "start" of the process. From what I have heard from some trusted friends who are salesman, there are a large number of owners out there that are missrepresenting thier aircraft to try and unload them in this down market so BUYER BEWARE. MSC annuals are valuable in the logbook, but again, not all are equal.

[Barry]

Richard ... A BIG AMEN !! You verbalized what I really wanted to say so well ...

[jetdriven]

Jimmy and David are top notch, and I used to work for several dealers ferrying planes and I know their tricks.  We bought our 201 from them last January.  We looked at many planes (not Mooneys however) from many sellers and were absolutely floored at the misrepresentation, condition, and general poor offerings out there. Damage history, hangar rash, fires, missing logs, you name it.  We live in Houston, so we went over to look at their 201 on a Sunday and they had plenty of opportunities to lie or misrepresent, but didn't. We liked the plane but it seemed, well, slow.  I brough this up and they test flew the aircraft for almost an hour in a box pattern at 7500 feet and with a digital tach.  Turns out the tach was off by 150 RPM. The plane was fine.  We brought our second partner over to fly the plane and left David with a check for 5,000$.  Annual and prebuy completed, and it was ours.   In the end, the airplane was about exactly what we thought it would be on paper and after a couple grand in repairing inop stuff we already knew about, it is a great airplane.  I'd do it again.

[rorythedog]

i don't mean to inject cynicism into this very utopian thread.....but to all of you who doubt that used airplane sales is not a business of negotiation, then just try to sell your recently purchased plane back to the same broker that you bought it from....then you'll get an accurate representation of it's condition and value.  and i'm not referring to the normal dealer markup either.  or better yet...get a quote on what those folks in texas will allow you on your pampered bird as a trade in.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: rorythedog

i don't mean to inject cynicism into this very utopian thread.....but to all of you who doubt that used airplane sales is not a business of negotiation, then just try to sell your recently purchased plane back to the same broker that you bought it from....then you'll get an accurate representation of it's condition and value.  and i'm not referring to the normal dealer markup either.  or better yet...get a quote on what those folks in texas will allow you on your pampered bird as a trade in.

[rorythedog]

Quote: N4352H

 Yes, but they (brokers) serve a purpose. In the grand scheme of J's and pre J's we have a viable place to sell and purchase.  No marketing, insulated risk, no answering the phone and timeliness sometimes required to make the deal happen on the aircraft you are trying to buy. This is not quantifiable, but should be considered. The broker we are speaking of here is unabashed about making a living. It's just how much of a living.......and he is aware if one is a hog, one gets "slop". We're lucky to have him. He provides a fair service.

And frankly (not to digress), the 1990's are over. The days of buying a 20-30 year old airframe and expecting it to appreciate 8% to 15% will never happen again. Flipping planes every few years will now cost you, thanks to Cirrus and a few others.