Got my renewal insurance quote today...

[KLRDMD]

1 minute ago, M016576 said:

Did you get rid of the baron?

No, I just bought the Baron in January of this year. A friend of mine is buying the Mooney but he isn't quite ready for it so I recently renewed insurance on the Mooney.

[Hank]

Anyone else get this in the mail? Ever heard of "BWIFLY"? Pireps, good, bad or indifferent? I will renew in July so no rush. 

[carusoam]

Thought I might have heard of them, but can’t make the connection...

https://bwifly.com/

Looks like you can enter a tail number to get a quote.  The website is pretty modern.  So they may have a tech guy cranking out numbers automatically...

Best regards,

-a-

[Fookz92]

17 hours ago, Hank said:

Anyone else get this in the mail? Ever heard of "BWIFLY"? Pireps, good, bad or indifferent? I will renew in July so no rush. 

I got the same post card in the mail last week.

[Fookz92]

Purchased a 69 Cherokee 140/160 in Jan 2016. $35K hull value with Starr. 1500hrs TT ATP/CFII rated. With a lot of multi and turbine experience.  24 years old. $650/yr.

Jan 2017 Renewal at $795/yr with 1800hrs TT. 

Jan 2018 Renewal at $485/yr with 2100hrs TT. Sold the Cherokee in March 2018. But why the inconsistency?! I just dont get them.

Bought my 77 J in December 2017 and my broker gave me a quote from Starr. I about fell out of my chair at $1850/yr at $100K hull value. Zero Mooney time. Required 10 hours of training. 

I ended up going with Global for the same coverage for $1050yr and only requiring me 2 hrs with a Mooney instructor.  

[RobertGary1]

On 4/23/2018 at 7:49 AM, Fookz92 said:

Purchased a 69 Cherokee 140/160 in Jan 2016. $35K hull value with Starr. 1500hrs TT ATP/CFII rated. With a lot of multi and turbine experience.  24 years old. $650/yr.

Jan 2017 Renewal at $795/yr with 1800hrs TT. 

Jan 2018 Renewal at $485/yr with 2100hrs TT. Sold the Cherokee in March 2018. But why the inconsistency?! I just dont get them.

Bought my 77 J in December 2017 and my broker gave me a quote from Starr. I about fell out of my chair at $1850/yr at $100K hull value. Zero Mooney time. Required 10 hours of training. 

I ended up going with Global for the same coverage for $1050yr and only requiring me 2 hrs with a Mooney instructor.  

Why did the broker even mention the Starr quote to you if it wasn’t competitive?

 

-Robert

[Raptor05121]

On 4/19/2018 at 9:05 PM, ragedracer1977 said:

I've been with Starr insurance. When I bought my Mooney I had under 5 hours complex time.  About 80tt.  Zero in a Mooney.  My annual premium was ~$1500.  Now, I'm instrument rated. Nearly 300tt.  Almost 200hrs complex/mooney time.  Starr decided my rate should be ~$2100.  That was a shock, to see it go up so much, not at all what I expected. I got another quote from Global Aerospace, and bound a policy with them. $915 for the year.  And a much much more liberal open pilot policy, with all the other coverages being identical.  I guess Starr doesn't want to write mooney policies this year.  

Ditto. Bought mine 80TT, no complex. $1300 from Starr. Next year they wanted $1700 with 300TT. I went to another...

[carusoam]

3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Why did the broker even mention the Starr quote to you if it wasn’t competitive?

 

-Robert

A broker working for you, will give you all of the information you want to support your decision...

They collect all the info, deliver the results, and make a recomendation...

Otherwise you get the feeling they didn’t do the work and only direct you to somebody they have a relationship with...

The choice is yours.  A higher quote may come from a more stable company.  Sometimes you get lucky and the best price, comes from the best company.  An insurance pro has a better chance of knowing which companies are better than the others...

As an owner of one plane, you won’t know how good your insurance company is until you or maybe another MSer has a problem...

How is that for logic?

Best regards,

-a-

[Fookz92]

5 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Why did the broker even mention the Starr quote to you if it wasn’t competitive?

 

-Robert

Not a clue. I had to mention "Global aircraft" to her before I get a quote. (I did prior research to find global and better rates)

[RobertGary1]

40 minutes ago, Fookz92 said:

Not a clue. I had to mention "Global aircraft" to her before I get a quote. (I did prior research to find global and better rates)

Doesn’t sound like a good broker I’m sorry to say. It’s really important that they know who to shop in the market. I wouldn’t go To someone who sells homeowners on the side. 

[Warren]

On 4/22/2018 at 3:32 PM, Hank said:

Anyone else get this in the mail? Ever heard of "BWIFLY"? Pireps, good, bad or indifferent? I will renew in July so no rush. 

I went t renew last year with Starr and they increased my pricing. In 2016 I bought my Mooney 231k with about 80 hours, no complex or high performance time. Starr was $2400 and I figured as a new pilot this was reasonable with my risk profile. 2017 went to renew with 200+ hours and Starr increased my pricing by $300...clearly they don’t want my business. BWIFLY was $1700 with 120hull/$1M/$100k. I researched and could not find a reason not to go with them. Very similar policy as far as I can tell. 

[RobertGary1]

5 hours ago, Warren said:

I went t renew last year with Starr and they increased my pricing. In 2016 I bought my Mooney 231k with about 80 hours, no complex or high performance time. Starr was $2400 and I figured as a new pilot this was reasonable with my risk profile. 2017 went to renew with 200+ hours and Starr increased my pricing by $300...clearly they don’t want my business. BWIFLY was $1700 with 120hull/$1M/$100k. I researched and could not find a reason not to go with them. Very similar policy as far as I can tell. 

But that makes sense. If Starr has found a profitable market with low time pilots then they probably aren't working to keep higher time pilots. Its an ever shifting market and which company offers the best deal for various pilot time's is always in flux. That's why your broker shops different underwriters each year and doesn't jsut sign you up for the same underwriter each year.

 

-Robert

[Bob_Belville]

What is the broker commission formula? Are there bonuses and other incentives that compromises their nominal "loyalty" to the plane owner?

In my case, a very well respected Mooney savvy broker did not offer me the best price and I had to change brokers. The difference was huge. I saved 2/3 and went from $5000 in motion deductible to zero. 

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, Bob_Belville said:

What is the broker commission formula? Are there bonuses and other incentives that compromises their nominal "loyalty" to the plane owner?

In my case, a very well respected Mooney savvy broker did not offer me the best price and I had to change brokers. The difference was huge. I saved 2/3 and went from $5000 in motion deductible to zero. 

My understanding is that they always get a flat 10% from the underwriter. If your broker didn't get you the best underwriter that seems just unprofessional. Or lazy on his part. There are only a small pool of underwriters, any respectable broker knows who they are are.

-Robert

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

My understanding is that they always get a flat 10% from the underwriter. If your broker didn't get you the best underwriter that seems just unprofessional. Or lazy on his part. There are only a small pool of underwriters, any respectable broker knows who they are are.

-Robert

Yeah, at one time I understood the underwriters got reg # and "locked" their quote and there was no advantage to calling several brokers but I think that it is possible that brokers, even larger ones, do not check the whole market anymore. 3 years ago I had to change brokers to find hull coverage after a gear up.

[bradp]

I just renewed with ORA.  $1500 for 1MM smooth.  Have hurricane relocation benefits but lost my open pilot warranty until reaching 1000 hrs. I had another slightly lower quote but it didn’t have as good hurricane benefit - the folks at Falcon have always been good about giving me sound advice to find the right policy that fits the type of flying I do.

[larrynimmo]

with very little time, no ticket and no complex I bought my 1981 J in june last year....

Starr is the only one to insure me...They were at 2485...then I upgraded the electronics and raised the hull value to $87k and they went to 2900.  

With renewal time coming up, I now have my ticket and a total of about 180 hours, of which 70 hours on the mooney...how did Starr reward my experience...They raised my rate to 3000.

Global came in at 1600...I will make the change.

 

[RobertGary1]

On 4/26/2018 at 1:12 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Yeah, at one time I understood the underwriters got reg # and "locked" their quote and there was no advantage to calling several brokers but I think that it is possible that brokers, even larger ones, do not check the whole market anymore. 3 years ago I had to change brokers to find hull coverage after a gear up.

Yes. They can still do this but you don't hear about it as much. In theory every broker should return the exact same quote since quotation is 90% an automated computer process. The only time a broker really gets influence is in situations such as negotiating how much dual you'll need. For instance I once got a broker to negotiate no M20F time for a friend who was going to retrieve a plane on condition that be first get dual in a C model that was available before he left. 

-Robert

[outermarker]

Ok, I'm an old fart...what is "smooth"?

[steingar]

I had a huge claim last year, so I expect I'll be between a rock and a hard place for mine.  Oh well, bend over and take it like a man.

[N6018Q]

55 minutes ago, outermarker said:

Ok, I'm an old fart...what is "smooth"?

Q: What is a "Combined Single Limit of Liability" or "smooth" limit?

A: Most aircraft insurance policies contain liability coverage sub-limits. An example would be, $100,000 Bodily Injury each person per accident/ $1,000,000, Property Damage per accident/ $1,000,000 total each accident for all bodily injury and property damage. With sub-limits, the most that can be collected under each coverage per accident is the stated maximum limit. A combined single limit (CSL), often called a "smooth" limit, has the total stated limit available with no specific sub-limits for Bodily Injury or Property Damage claims.

[TomR]

I had the same experience with Starr. The provided my coverage last year on my new plane. At time 150 hrs instrument no complex time. Quoted at 3000 per year. Went to renew and have put 100 hrs in the mooney yet Starr jumped to nearly 4200. Went with qbe I believe for approx 3000. Was very surprised but I think it’s true that Starr just didn’t want to write mooney policies this year. Hoping next my rates will come down, fingers crossed 

[nightmoves]

I know I'm digging up an old-ish thread here, but this is now relevant to me. I took out my first policy last summer as a 0-hour pilot in my F through Falcon, who is supposed to search multiple providers. My premium last year was about $1,900 and that was to use my plane for my PPL training. I figured "it can't get any worse than this" - I was wrong. My renewal came back today with Star and the increase was about 25%. They cited "low time pilot" as reason for increase. I have about 60 hrs as PIC right now. My agent said 4 of the companies declined to even quote me and Star was the only option.

So, I decided to try and get some quotes hoping there are more than 5 insurers out there. After turning in the quote forms from various places, like EAA, I get an email from my agent saying "these are all going to me, so stop it" (paraphrased).

What insurers exist that are independent from these "5 or 6" that Falcon shops? I would like to see numbers from someone else. Sorry for the long winded post. Thanks for the help.

[KLRDMD]

57 minutes ago, nightmoves said:

I know I'm digging up an old-ish thread here, but this is now relevant to me. I took out my first policy last summer as a 0-hour pilot in my F through Falcon, who is supposed to search multiple providers. My premium last year was about $1,900 and that was to use my plane for my PPL training. I figured "it can't get any worse than this" - I was wrong. My renewal came back today with Star and the increase was about 25%. They cited "low time pilot" as reason for increase. I have about 60 hrs as PIC right now. My agent said 4 of the companies declined to even quote me and Star was the only option.

So, I decided to try and get some quotes hoping there are more than 5 insurers out there. After turning in the quote forms from various places, like EAA, I get an email from my agent saying "these are all going to me, so stop it" (paraphrased).

What insurers exist that are independent from these "5 or 6" that Falcon shops? I would like to see numbers from someone else. Sorry for the long winded post. Thanks for the help.

You'll have to change your agent of record. Contact Wendy Wenk and she'll take care of you.

Wenk Aviation Insurance, LLC

900 North Shore Drive, Suite 109, Lake Bluff, IL  60044

847.235.2491 phone │ 800.225.9365 toll free │ 847.235.2559 fax

wendy@wenkaviation.com

[Mooneymite]

As a Mooney owner I have several options, but since I also own an experimental (very few of this model built), my broker was only able to find one company that would quote on it the year I bought it.  After four years at the same premium, there was a $94 increase this year.  Naturally I squawked, but not very loud, or long.