STEC 3100 Digital Autopilot

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 2/10/2018 at 2:59 PM, Robert C. said:

hmm..thread has been removed. Not sure what was in it as I'm just back from travel and catching up.

However, my impression from other discussions was that the 3100 won't work with the G1000 without Mooney doing a SB just like for the WAAS upgrade.

Robert

Question: Does getting an STC for G1000 Mooney’s require certification by Mooney as well as Genesys?

 Answer: No, if we get the Mooney 3100 STC we can add the G1000 interface without certification from Mooney. S-TEC is not dependent on Mooney for certification. When we get the 3100 STC, we can add the G1000 interface without certification from Mooney. We just need to complete the analysis to find out what the G1000 interface will look like and what functionality is available.

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 1/30/2018 at 1:54 PM, LANCECASPER said:

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=148639

If I had an Ovation DX or GX or Bravo GX or Eagle with an STEC autopilot I would be all over this. You go from a rate based to an attitude based and add a lot of other features for the money.

Genesys Aerosystems is looking for 9 Mooney owners to either upgrade or install a new S-TEC 3100 installation. The models that we are looking for are the M20B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, L, M, R, S, and TN. All Mooney models can be accomplished on a single STC. We would need a commitment from 9 more Mooney owners to proceed with the STC. The commitment would be in the form of a purchase order to a Genesys Authorized Installation Center.

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 3/30/2018 at 12:07 PM, Piotrekpdx said:

Hi Simpson,

Have you found your 15 owners yet? I'm interested.

Thank you!

Hi, We only need 9 more Mooney operators to get started on the STC. . The models that we are looking for are the M20B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, L, M, R, S, and TN. All Mooney models can be accomplished on a single STC. Please send a purchase order in. 

[mike_elliott]

Hi Barry, any thoughts about becoming one of the Sponsors for the Mooney Summit, or is this off the table? I havent heard back since our email exchange, and want to get our sponsors finalized so that we can do them the justice they deserve for helping those in the Mooney community.

www.mooneysummit.com/sponsors

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 4/10/2018 at 5:10 PM, PeytonM said:

I just received an email and Press Release from Genesys. They are copied below.  I talked with Barry LeBlanc today and they are still short the 10 POs before they will pull the Mooney STC trigger. Check out the next tier models they have in line. I was surprised to see how many makes/models are on it.  I know some Mooney owners are waiting for the TruTrak and Trio.  From what I’ve seen, these may not be approach-certified.  I have an ailing Century 2000, so that’s a deal-breaker. I think we may have two groups of Mooney owners: those who have no autopilot at all, and those who have something similar to my C2000.  Maybe the former sees the $20K (plus install) as outrageous for their airframe; I get that.  But for others flying models with values north of $120K, this seems in line with other upgrades e.g. paint, interior, GPS systems, glass panels.  Everyone is entitled to evaluate cost v benefit, but there is no reason to bash vendors. (MSers may have a bad rep here. That’s very disappointing to me. Talking about our airplanes on a site like this should be a safe haven from the vitriol that has crept into our world.)

I have found my discussions with Barry to be open and constructive.  He’s a good guy.  Give him a call or drop him a note.  940.327.0707  barry.leblanc@genesys-aerosystems.com

From Barry: “We are trying to add as many aircraft as possible to our list of STC aircraft for the 3100.  Right now we are prioritizing STCs based upon the level of interest (level of interest is based upon received POs).  Any makes and models where we receive 15 POs are prioritized on our STC list.  

 Any PO received before we start the STC can be canceled.  We will notify all persons when the STC commences indicating they have three weeks to cancel or the PO will at that time be subject to a cancellation fee. 

 To build a backlog of orders which will allow us to ship autopilots as soon as we get the STC we are offing the following incentive to end users.  

• For new installs, the warranty will be three years for the entire system (1 more year than our standard)
• For upgrades, the 3100 will be warrantied for three years, and the servos will be warrantied for two years no matter how old they are.  They DO NOT need to be sent in for a check. There is no $500 check fee if there is an issue.
• Please note, the owner will need to submit a warranty registration card within 60 days of installation to receive the additional warranty. 

 To receive the above, we must accept the PO before the receipt of PMA-STC.The extended warranty offer is only valid until we gain the STC. Once that occurs, the regular warranty period will be offered. 

I am the point of contact for the following airframes. The models I am looking for are:

Mooney’s

Beavers

Twin Otters

Lake Aircraft

From Genesys: Genesys Aerosystems, leading manufacturer of autopilots and stability augmentation systems for fixed and rotary wing aircraft, announces today that it has earned FAA Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) approval of the S-TEC 3100 on:

·        Cessna 210K through R models

·        Beechcraft Bonanza A35/36 series models.

·        Cessna 182 series

 

Next on the 3100 STC roadmap are the:

·        Piper PA-32 

·        Cessna 177

·        Cessna 310, 320, 335, 340 and 340A

·        Cessna P210

·        Cessna 414, 421 and 425

·        Piper PA-46 series

Thank You,

Barry LeBlanc

Genesys Aerosystems

Regional Sales Manager

M: 940.327.0707

Thank You, We are still in the hunt for nine more committed owners. 

 

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 1/30/2018 at 1:54 PM, LANCECASPER said:

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=148639

If I had an Ovation DX or GX or Bravo GX or Eagle with an STEC autopilot I would be all over this. You go from a rate based to an attitude based and add a lot of other features for the money.

2

Hi, Yes the Ovation DX or GX or Bravo GX or Eagle with a STEC autopilot can be updated. 

[Danb]

17 hours ago, Barry LeBlanc said:

Genesys Aerosystems is looking for 9 Mooney owners to either upgrade or install a new S-TEC 3100 installation. The models that we are looking for are the M20B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, L, M, R, S, and TN. All Mooney models can be accomplished on a single STC. We would need a commitment from 9 more Mooney owners to proceed with the STC. The commitment would be in the form of a purchase order to a Genesys Authorized Installation Center.

Barry

Hopefully you have my airplane N423PS on the list, my avionics co, Red Eagle @ KILG, supposedly put the order in when the 3100 was announced.

 

 

[Barry LeBlanc]

2 minutes ago, Danb said:

Barry

Hopefully you have my airplane N423PS on the list, my avionics co, Red Eagle @ KILG, supposedly put the order in when the 3100 was announced.

 

 

Yes they did!

[Barry LeBlanc]

On 5/8/2018 at 4:50 PM, 201Mooniac said:

Looks like they have 9 of the required 15 POs to get started.  I'm working on getting my PO in now.  Any others?

Hi,

 If you would like a copy of the POH, please email me directly: barry.leblanc@genesys-aerosystems.com  If you would like to ask any questions please call me at 940.327.0707

Thank You,

Barry LeBlanc

Regional Sales Manager- Mooney POC

[Cris]

Spoke to Barry and he  needs just 6 more Mooney owners to commit in order to schedule the STC. For those that are on the fence this is a no deposit commitment until the STC is issued. You have the opportunity to cancel once notified so there should be no reason not to request your dealer to put a purchase order in place for you. It is also a benefit to you as the existing servo’s will receive a two year warranty for those who place an order Pre STC. And the servo’s do not need to be returned to Stec for precertification which saves a bundle but will still be warranted. This works for all the Mooney’s including the G1000. The ones that will benefit most will be those that are upgrading from an installed Stec now. I thought I’d share with you my reasoning to consider this autopilot.

1) Safety: Every day I age and I’m beginning to think I’m like my old dog. As a result I have an obligation to be certain my passengers are as safe as possible.

My Stec 30 with GPSS is located on the far left of the panel. It makes training and showing a right seater how to use it in an emergency very difficult if not impossible. I want something that is quick, easy and intuitive. Safety First. The Stec 3100 will be installed in front of the right seater at best or maybe in the center stack. The controls are simple.

The Straight and Level Recovery button will right the A/C wheather the autopilot is on or off. Push the LVL button and the A/C levels. Nothing easier than that. 

Envelope Protection: The Autopilot will recover automatically with overbanking or over speed or approach to stall and provide visual and aural annunciation. So if my right seater is trying to fly me to safety on the ground they have some resource to assist. 

2) Versatility: This digital autopilot will now add indicated and verticle speed control, dual mode HDG/NAV & HDG/APR, GPSS, Control wheel steering, Flight Director capability, go around button, automatic trim ,voice annunciation and it will track the LPV and GS as well as step down approaches. And there is more....

Even though this is an attitude based system it will continue to operate with a vacuum failure since it has its own AHARS.  As an aside I can get rid of the vacuum system and it’s backup to gain useful load if I wish. 

I think of this as the Swiss Army knife of autopilots. It is designed to work with round gauges, mechanical gauges, EFIS and glass. It gives me lots of future options. In fact Aspen is adding it to its system so it can be operated from the Aspen Pro. 

Unlike some of the newer experimental autopilots being certified this works with both GPS and VOR/LOC. I like the idea of a ground based backup. 

3) Value: This  comes in two parts Price and Benefits some of which I’ve mentioned above. However whenever I consider upgrades I generally look at the increase of value in the A/C vs the cost of the upgrade. As an example if you paint the A/C Vref will add about half of the cost back for a recent painting. Depending on how long I own the A/C determines the real cost of the painting in terms of dollars. But the reality is I don’t care as I wanted a different color or look etc. You get the point. I suspect this will add about what a new paint job would cost in terms of an ROI of 50%. 

Price of this upgrade is $10500 plus installation. It warranties the servos ( which are some of the most reliable in the industry)  for an additional 2 years and the 3100 for 3 years. It offers more capability and safety than what I currently have. It will make the A/C easier to sell in the future and it will not require tearing up the A/C to install new servo’s. I realize some will think that is a negative but these are proven units with 40K of them in the field. In looking at the other autopilot options I don’t believe any of them will be less expensive than this upgrade with similar options considered as well as the installation cost which is minimal for this system. 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Cris
Added GPSS

[Mooney in Oz]

2 hours ago, Cris said:

needs just 6 more Mooney owners to commit in order to schedule the STC

Well explained Cris. I’ve added my commitment from downunder, so this should reduce the Mooney owners to 5. I’ve been told the price is 9k.

[Marauder]

Spoke to Barry and he  needs just 6 more Mooney owners to commit in order to schedule the STC. For those that are on the fence this is a no deposit commitment until the STC is issued. You have the opportunity to cancel once notified so there should be no reason not to request your dealer to put a purchase order in place for you. It is also a benefit to you as the existing servo’s will receive a two year warranty for those who place an order Pre STC. And the servo’s do not need to be returned to Stec for precertification which saves a bundle but will still be warranted. This works for all the Mooney’s including the G1000. The ones that will benefit most will be those that are upgrading from an installed Stec now. I thought I’d share with you my reasoning to consider this autopilot.
1) Safety: Every day I age and I’m beginning to think I’m like my old dog. As a result I have an obligation to be certain my passengers are as safe as possible.
My Stec 30 with GPSS is located on the far left of the panel. It makes training and showing a right seater how to use it in an emergency very difficult if not impossible. I want something that is quick, easy and intuitive. Safety First. The Stec 3100 will be installed in front of the right seater at best or maybe in the center stack. The controls are simple.
The Straight and Level Recovery button will right the A/C wheather the autopilot is on or off. Push the LVL button and the A/C levels. Nothing easier than that. 
Envelope Protection: The Autopilot will recover automatically with overbanking or over speed or approach to stall and provide visual and aural annunciation. So if my right seater is trying to fly me to safety on the ground they have some resource to assist. 
2) Versatility: This digital autopilot will now add indicated and verticle speed control, dual mode HDG/NAV & HDG/APR, Control wheel steering, Flight Director capability, go around button, automatic trim ,voice annunciation and it will track the LPV and GS as well as step down approaches. And there is more....
Even though this is an attitude based system it will continue to operate with a vacuum failure since it has its own AHARS.  As an aside I can get rid of the vacuum system and it’s backup to gain useful load if I wish. 
I think of this as the Swiss Army knife of autopilots. It is designed to work with round gauges, mechanical gauges, EFIS and glass. It gives me lots of future options. In fact Aspen is adding it to its system so it can be operated from the Aspen Pro. 
Unlike some of the newer experimental autopilots being certified this works with both GPS and VOR/LOC. I like the idea of a ground based backup. 
3) Value: This  comes in two parts Price and Benefits some of which I’ve mentioned above. However whenever I consider upgrades I generally look at the increase of value in the A/C vs the cost of the upgrade. As an example if you paint the A/C Vref will add about half of the cost back for a recent painting. Depending on how long I own the A/C determines the real cost of the painting in terms of dollars. But the reality is I don’t care as I wanted a different color or look etc. You get the point. I suspect this will add about what a new paint job would cost in terms of an ROI of 50%. 
Price of this upgrade is $10500 plus installation. It warranties the servos ( which are some of the most reliable in the industry)  for an additional 2 years and the 3100 for 3 years. It offers more capability and safety than what I currently have. It will make the A/C easier to sell in the future and it will not require tearing up the A/C to install new servo’s. I realize some will think that is a negative but these are proven units with 40K of them in the field. In looking at the other autopilot options I don’t believe any of them will be less expensive than this upgrade with similar options considered as well as the installation cost which is minimal for this system. 
 

Cris - @10.5 with the Garmin & TruTrak expected to be in the $7k range plus installation with new servos, it will be a hard sale for existing STEC owners like myself.

If they show an integration path with Aspens (not just talk that they will), it might be something I would consider.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Cris]

13 hours ago, Marauder said:

Cris - @10.5 with the Garmin & TruTrak expected to be in the $7k range plus installation with new servos, it will be a hard sale for existing STEC owners like myself.

If they show an integration path with Aspens (not just talk that they will), it might be something I would consider.

Chris  The Garmin requires a G5 to provide heading. I don’t believe it will work with your Aspen but maybe that will change. At least that is what Garmin has said previously that they require a G5 and is posted on their web site. If you want auto trim the GFC500 will require their trim servo which adds to the cost. If you want a flight director then a 2nd G5 is required. Add them up and you will soon be well beyond the upgrade cost of your Stec 60 for a GFC500 not to mention the additional cost to replace your Stec servo’s with the Garmin servo’s and the associated wiring brackets etc. You are my hero with your panel and of all folks you know the way these projects expand. Oh almost forgot you need to add an adapter to the GFC500 to allow your GTN to use GPS Nav. WARRANTY: Since this is a non tso’d Garmin product it carries only a one year warranty compared to the Stec3100 3 year warranty and two years on existing servo’s if you put a P.O. in before the STC. Is issued on our Mooney’s. 

In terms of the Aspen displaying the data/controls and interfacing with the 3100 that comes from Barry but as I said this is cancellable prior to when the STC is issued so it’s a non issue to me. I suspect Aspen will require some fee like they do for the Stec 55X interface. However the Aspen will interface with the Stec 3100 now. As I mentioned Stec has developed this to work with mechanical HSI EFIS and glass so you are good to go. 

Now Let’s look at the Tru Trak. That system does not have electric trim period so how will that be handled? It also will only work with GPS. It will not track the VOR/LOC  or the associated GS because it cant be interfaced.  Do you really want to give up that VLOC capability that you have with your current autopilot? You have one of the best panels in the fleet with multiple backups so I can’t imagine that you would settle for less. Finally like the Garmin GFC500 you have to rip out your current system servo’s with all that entails so the install cost will have to be higher than a straight upgrade. 

As I said I think when you really look at the costs the Stec upgrade is quite competitive and the value is compelling. I’ve also heard a rumor of a lower  cost of $9000 might be in the wings. We shall see. 

However my primary interest is not in the lowest cost but rather the safest autopilot with the best value that I can get at this stage of life for my right seater. Truth be known I don’t think I’ve flown a dozen coupled actual approaches in my entire flying career. I prefer to hand fly them which keeps me current and hopefully competent. With that said I consider a basic autopilot like the Stec 30 with altitude hold a go/no go item for IFR. This will now be expanded to include flight with passengers VFR. 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Cris
Added Warranty info. For Garmin

[201Mooniac]

On 6/3/2018 at 3:33 PM, Mooney in Oz said:

Well explained Cris. I’ve added my commitment from downunder, so this should reduce the Mooney owners to 5. I’ve been told the price is 9k.

I just got my shop to move my commitment forward as well.  I guess we are down to needing 4 more.

[Cris]

Well we are certainly close. Let’s ask our Mooney friends that may not be on MS or look only occasionally. I’m thinking Caravan etc. There must be four more out there so we can get this in the pipeline. FYI on installation costs. In checking around I find that Stec uses 70-80 hours for a new installation including servo’s. Quotes I’ve gotten for an upgrade using the existing servo’s range from a low of 15 hours to 45 hrs. I’d think something in the 30-35 hour range is probably appropriate for an Stec 30 with manual electric trim to the Stec 3100. Compare that with the cost of one of the other autopilots as I can’t see how they would be less costly to install especially if one considers that the old system with servo’s would need to be removed. If  one uses Stec as a guide then half the install  cost consists of installing the servos, brackets and wiring. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Cris
Added Stec 30 info

[201Mooniac]

27 minutes ago, Cris said:

 In checking around I find that Stec uses 70-80 hours for a new installation including servo’s. Quotes I’ve gotten for an upgrade using the existing servo’s range from a low of 15 hours to 45 hrs. I’d think something in the 30-35 hour range is probably appropriate. Compare that with the cost of one of the other autopilots as I can’t see how they would be less costly to install especially if one considers that the old system with servo’s would need to be removed. If  one uses Stec as a guide then half the install  cost consists of installing the servos, brackets and wiring. 

My quote was for 25 hoursl.

[Cris]

That is great information. Curious as to which Stec you have installed and are upgrading? 

[Marauder]

5 hours ago, Cris said:

Well we are certainly close. Let’s ask our Mooney friends that may not be on MS or look only occasionally. I’m thinking Caravan etc. There must be four more out there so we can get this in the pipeline. FYI on installation costs. In checking around I find that Stec uses 70-80 hours for a new installation including servo’s. Quotes I’ve gotten for an upgrade using the existing servo’s range from a low of 15 hours to 45 hrs. I’d think something in the 30-35 hour range is probably appropriate. Compare that with the cost of one of the other autopilots as I can’t see how they would be less costly to install especially if one considers that the old system with servo’s would need to be removed. If  one uses Stec as a guide then half the install  cost consists of installing the servos, brackets and wiring. 

Cris -- if there are no permanent deposit until the STC, I will sign up to get this moving forward. I sent a message to my avionics shop for a quote and have not heard back from him. Send me a PM with the shops who quoted you so I can see if I can find one that will get my quote on record. 

[gacoon]

All this talk about upgrade existing Stec installation, thats fine for some.  But how about those of us that have brand X.  The economics are completely different.  Whats the price to replace  a Century 2000/Aspen configuration?

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, Cris said:

That is great information. Curious as to which Stec you have installed and are upgrading? 

Updating an S-Tec 55X

[Marauder]

13 hours ago, gacoon said:

All this talk about upgrade existing Stec installation, thats fine for some.  But how about those of us that have brand X.  The economics are completely different.  Whats the price to replace  a Century 2000/Aspen configuration?

Your first born. 

The STEC 3100 is being touted as the equivalent to the GFC 600 and with the corresponding price to match. I signed up for the 3100 upgrade to my STEC 60-2 but will wait to see what the final price is before commiting. $10k in my mind with analog re-used servos is costly when the GFC 500 will run ~$12-14k if you need to buy a G5. You will get digital servos with the GFC 500. 

I would love to see a GFC500 versus STEC 3100 fly off to see how well they stack up against each other.

[mike_elliott]

This thread got me thinking...I wonder if Bendix King is waiting for 10 Purchase orders for the KI300's before they start?

 

[Marauder]

33 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

This thread got me thinking...I wonder if Bendix King is waiting for 10 Purchase orders for the KI300's before they start?

 

You bad!

[Danb]

10 minutes ago, Marauder said:

You bad!

Ask Peter

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

This thread got me thinking...I wonder if Bendix King is waiting for 10 Purchase orders for the KI300's before they start?

 

Bendix King was just about to start production and they realized all 10 purchase orders were from Peter.