Trutrack Update

[wcb]

Here is a quick update. response from TruTrack

"Just checking in on the progress of the Mooney M20's in particularly the M20F.  Watching the Mooney Space pages I am seeing everyone (a ton of us that is) are waiting on pins and needles to see who will be first to market.  It looks like first to market will be huge in winning the overall Mooney community."

Response:

"We are currently finishing up the PA-28's and I am expecting that we will see Mooney's added by spring if not before."

[LevelWing]

@Gunderbear post this about 6 weeks ago:

Hopefully they're already testing this or will be shortly.

[Stephen]

Tell 'em My Mooney M20F is based in Rogers, AR... about 5 min flight time from TruTrack .... if they need a test plane. I have an STEC 60-2 currently.  

[wcb]

Trutrack announcement today!

PA-28, PA-32, 175, AND ALL 172's UPDATE

We just received our STC! That means we are ready to start shipping product! Our documents are live on our website and you can find those by clicking

 

So, I emailed how about the Mooney and this is their response.

 

 

Mooney is NEXT!!!  Finishing up the 180, 182, 185 in the super near future, the Mooney is coming into our facility next week.

 

Andrew Barker

President / CEO

TruTrak Flight Systems

 

____________________________________________________________

 

We plan to start taking pre orders for the Mooney as soon as we figure out exactly which models we will be addressing in the initial STC.  Should be ready to start accepting those in the next 30 days.

 

Andrew Barker

President / CEO

TruTrak Flight Systems

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by wcb

[Bob - S50]

26 minutes ago, wcb said:

Trutrack announcement today!

PA-28, PA-32, 175, AND ALL 172's UPDATE

We just received our STC! That means we are ready to start shipping product! Our documents are live on our website and you can find those by clicking

 

So, I emailed how about the Mooney and this is their response.

 

 

Mooney is NEXT!!!  Finishing up the 180, 182, 185 in the super near future, the Mooney is coming into our facility next week.

 

Andrew Barker

President / CEO

TruTrak Flight Systems

 

____________________________________________________________

 

We plan to start taking pre orders for the Mooney as soon as we figure out exactly which models we will be addressing in the initial STC.  Should be ready to start accepting those in the next 30 days.

 

Andrew Barker

President / CEO

TruTrak Flight Systems

 

Here's the $100,000 question.  Will the STC include instrument approaches and/or auto-trim?

[wcb]

Taken from their website.

 

Vizion Features:

• Bank Angle Select (if no GPS signal)
• Track Select
• GPS Nav (Point to point type flight plans)
• GPSS (Roll steering commands)
• Vertical Speed Select
• Altitude Hold
• Altitude Select
• Altitude Pre-Select
• GPSV (LPV Approaches)
• Control Wheel Steering
• Emergency Level
• AEP (Bank Angle Protection Mode)
• Roll Servo
• Pitch Servo
• Install Kit
• Wiring Harness

And here is Youtube

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by wcb

[cliffy]

4 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

Here's the $100,000 question.  Will the STC include instrument approaches and/or auto-trim?

It will include GPS approches but NOT ILS/VOR as the autopilot utilizes GPS signaling only. 

We're looking at a basic A/P here with the ability to do programmed up and down, left and right, GPS tracking,  alt hold  and GPSS approaches. 

It won't be a full blown triple redundant, autoland A/P like in an Airbus 320.

I can hand fly an ILS about as good as an A/P.  Been doing it for 50 years even in Boeings.  It ain't no big deal folks. 

$5000  vs $15,000 plus just to get an ILS? 

I'm willing to bet ATC will work out something for "track" vs "heading" when enough of them get out there.   

Lots of us want something affordable for basic VFR cruising. If you want a full blown A/P with all the bells and whistles for heavy IFR this might not be for you. 

[Andy95W]

I'm with Cliffy.  Notice it has track select?  Just let the autopilot track the ILS final approach course while you monitor the needles.  At glide slope intercept VS select 500 fpm down to your DH- which you can set as an altitude preselect.

BTW- this is way more capability than a DC-9 which is flying final at 150 knots, not 90.

[MIm20c]

I think this is going to be my next AP if something happens to my stec. TruTrak is working with Aspen and I’m guessing the heading/ILS shortcomings will be fixed with the combo. 

All for the price of one or two repairs on a BK system. 

[ArtVandelay]

It has a use limit of 700 AGL, below that you are on your own (see placard information in installation guide). The other negative for me is I don’t have more RS232 ports available.

[Chris from PA]

Whether you're interested in purchasing one or not this is an exciting time as the vendors who support the experimental community bring their products to certified owners

 

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[wcb]

 

Just now, Chris from PA said:

Whether you're interested in purchasing one or not this is an exciting time as the vendors who support the experimental community bring their products certified owners

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 

And it brings the competition to the market place so you are not so dependent on brand S, brand C or brand G.

[Bob - S50]

5 hours ago, cliffy said:

It will include GPS approches but NOT ILS/VOR as the autopilot utilizes GPS signaling only. 

We're looking at a basic A/P here with the ability to do programmed up and down, left and right, GPS tracking,  alt hold  and GPSS approaches. 

It won't be a full blown triple redundant, autoland A/P like in an Airbus 320.

I can hand fly an ILS about as good as an A/P.  Been doing it for 50 years even in Boeings.  It ain't no big deal folks. 

$5000  vs $15,000 plus just to get an ILS? 

I'm willing to bet ATC will work out something for "track" vs "heading" when enough of them get out there.   

Lots of us want something affordable for basic VFR cruising. If you want a full blown A/P with all the bells and whistles for heavy IFR this might not be for you. 

If it will fly an LPV, I'm starting to like this option (for half the price of the others).

Since it has its own built in AHRS, if my ADI quits I could still use it to get me down through weather.  It would be nice if it had auto-trim but I guess I could live with a visual clue that tells me to trim (which I believe it does).

As for the track vs heading, I think I can be flexible enough to enter the desired track, wait for it to roll out, see how many degrees it is off of the assigned heading, and then adjust the track to get the desired heading.

Guess I better start practicing raw data approaches again.

[cliffy]

The one item on "track" vs "heading" is that when ATC assigns "heading" they allow for the drift of any crosswind With "track" selected it doesn't allow for wind drift. ATC will have to work with track vs heading when installed. 

[blacknchrome]

1 hour ago, cliffy said:

The one item on "track" vs "heading" is that when ATC assigns "heading" they allow for the drift of any crosswind With "track" selected it doesn't allow for wind drift. ATC will have to work with track vs heading when installed. 

ATC isn't going to have to change the way they do business because of one manufacturer's autopilot installed in a very small number of airplanes.  If you're assigned a heading by ATC, you shall fly that heading - not a track.  Just adjust your track so your heading is what is assigned.  I think it will still be simple - but it will involve more than just setting an assigned heading into your track selection on the autopilot and acting like it's somebody else's problem you're not in compliance.

 

[Andy95W]

Geez, talk about about making mountains out of molehills. 

A 20 knot, 45° crosswind would throw off your heading by about 7°.  Compare that to the guy in the old 172 who hasn't reset his heading indicator for the past hour to his wobbly magnetic compass that hasn't been re-swung since it left the factory 50 years ago.  

I'm not saying we should ignore the difference between heading and track, I'm just saying most of us have a lot better things to worry about.

[mike_elliott]

10 hours ago, cliffy said:

The one item on "track" vs "heading" is that when ATC assigns "heading" they allow for the drift of any crosswind With "track" selected it doesn't allow for wind drift. ATC will have to work with track vs heading when installed. 

With the equipment advances since 1960, I am not sure why they dont work with track vs heading now. Same can be said with altitude.

[Jeev]

21 hours ago, cliffy said:

It will include GPS approches but NOT ILS/VOR as the autopilot utilizes GPS signaling only. 

We're looking at a basic A/P here with the ability to do programmed up and down, left and right, GPS tracking,  alt hold  and GPSS approaches. 

It won't be a full blown triple redundant, autoland A/P like in an Airbus 320.

I can hand fly an ILS about as good as an A/P.  Been doing it for 50 years even in Boeings.  It ain't no big deal folks. 

$5000  vs $15,000 plus just to get an ILS? 

I'm willing to bet ATC will work out something for "track" vs "heading" when enough of them get out there.   

Lots of us want something affordable for basic VFR cruising. If you want a full blown A/P with all the bells and whistles for heavy IFR this might not be for you. 

Cliffy is spot on here however I think it is more than a basic VFR autopilot and I plan to definitely use it for IMC.  For the price it does 100% of what I need and is leaps and bounds better then the century III I will be replacing!  Based on what they did with the 172 / PA28 I am very excited about the Mooney Kit!

[Jeev]

I am so excited about this autopilot I became a vendor for them and we will be installing them on 172 /PA28's this month at our shop in Vegas.  As soon as the Mooney kit is approved I will be installing it in my J, will give a PIREP, make some videos and it will be available for flight demos.  In addition to all the features listed in the posts above the cool thing that really keeps costs down is that it can use a GPS source form pretty much any navigator: 430, 530, 650, 750, 480, 155XL, 250XL, 300XL, IFD550, KLN 89B and more.  The Garmin portable units like GPS 395, 396 and all the Garmin Areas will work also.

When Mooneys are approved I will post prices / install details in the Vendor section and yes there will be a Mooneyspace discount

Sanjeev 

[Browncbr1]

6 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Geez, talk about about making mountains out of molehills. 

A 20 knot, 45° crosswind would throw off your heading by about 7°.  Compare that to the guy in the old 172 who hasn't reset his heading indicator for the past hour to his wobbly magnetic compass that hasn't been re-swung since it left the factory 50 years ago.  

I'm not saying we should ignore the difference between heading and track, I'm just saying most of us have a lot better things to worry about.

yea, plus allowable installation error of magnetometers is +/-10 degrees.  I know my GMU11 installation error is 7-8 degrees already.  They just give you another heading assignment if it's not what they expected.

[1964-M20E]

7 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Geez, talk about about making mountains out of molehills. 

A 20 knot, 45° crosswind would throw off your heading by about 7°.  Compare that to the guy in the old 172 who hasn't reset his heading indicator for the past hour to his wobbly magnetic compass that hasn't been re-swung since it left the factory 50 years ago.  

I'm not saying we should ignore the difference between heading and track, I'm just saying most of us have a lot better things to worry about.

You are right too much energy for little result.  Yeah I know I should be using heading but I generally go by track when given a vector.  However, the majority of the places I fly magnetic north and true north are only a few degrees off but in other areas it is significant.   Similarly with NM vs SM yes there is a 15% difference but in some cases it is not enough to worry about.  3NM visibility vs 3SM vis not enough to worry about what unit is used a mile is a mile in this case.

[cliffy]

The one place where it might catch you is taking off from a parallel runway situation where Departure is expecting you to drift as much as the other guy with a crosswind. Other times, as you say (and I meant), ATC may just let it go as (work with it). It would happen at big airports with big iron.

[Hector]

Interestingly enough, flying north through central Florida last weekend, ATC asked me what I was tracking to my destination. I had to think whether to give him my heading or GPS track. I responded “tracking xxxx degrees” which was my GPS track but still not sure if he meant heading.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bradp]

2 hours ago, Hector said:

Interestingly enough, flying north through central Florida last weekend, ATC asked me what I was tracking to my destination. I had to think whether to give him my heading or GPS track. I responded “tracking xxxx degrees” which was my GPS track but still not sure if he meant heading.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Usually when I'm asked that the reason is that the controller wants to know which neighboring sector I will go to next and to whom I should be handed off.   Other reasons include airspace ahead, etc. 

[Bob - S50]

On 3/6/2018 at 8:19 PM, Bob - S50 said:

If it will fly an LPV, I'm starting to like this option (for half the price of the others).

Since it has its own built in AHRS, if my ADI quits I could still use it to get me down through weather.  It would be nice if it had auto-trim but I guess I could live with a visual clue that tells me to trim (which I believe it does).

As for the track vs heading, I think I can be flexible enough to enter the desired track, wait for it to roll out, see how many degrees it is off of the assigned heading, and then adjust the track to get the desired heading.

Guess I better start practicing raw data approaches again.

I recently took a look at the Aircraft Manual Supplement for both the TruTrak and Trio.

Here is a quote from the Trio:

"1. Minimum Engagement Altitude
a. 500 feet AGL.
b. In flight autopilot operation is prohibited below an altitude of 500 feet AGL on certificated aircraft where the autopilot has been installed via STC XXXXXXX.
2. Maximum Operating Altitude is 20,000 feet MSL.
3. This autopilot has not been evaluated to meet certification requirements for coupled instrument procedures, including coupled approaches. Therefore coupled instrument approaches and procedures are not authorized without further approval."

And here it is from the TruTrak:

"3.6. Altitude Limitations
The Vizion autopilot system has an altitude engage / disengage height limit. This limit shall be used for all modes of flight.
• The minimum autopilot operating altitude is 700 feet AGL.
3.7. Interface Limitations
This autopilot may only be interfaced with GPS equipment listed on TruTrak document number 186.
3.8. Other Limitations
This autopilot has not been evaluated to meet certification requirements for coupled instrument procedures, including coupled approaches. Therefore coupled instrument approaches and procedures are not authorized without further approval."

So neither one of them is approved for coupled approaches.  I'm not sure what is required to get "further approval", but even then, it won't get you to minimums.  That's not to say that if I tested it while VMC, that I would hesitate to use it in an emergency such as a failure of my attitude indicator, but with those limitations they are essentially only usable during the enroute portion of a flight.

Guess I'm back to waiting to see what Dynon and Garmin offer.   Unless TruTrak or Trio get "further approval".