Articulating seat frame

[Bennett]

New to the fotum, but not Mooneys. I recently purchased a 1983 Mooney M20J after previously owing a M20K (231 converted to a 261/262) for about 18 years -with various Pipers, Cessnas, and an LSA in between.  Love the "new" airplane.  I had her painted by ArtCraft in Santa Maria - great job, and uphostered by Tim Thallock (Aviation Design, Inc.) at Pine Mountain Lake - again a great job, but for some reason only the pilot's seat is articulating, and the co-pilot seat is far too low for any of my pilot friends,  I am looking for one articulating front seat - uphostery doesn't matter so long as the seat mechanism is intact.  I understand that these are very difficult to find, but I am prepared to pay a fair price for one.  Suggestions (other than add a cushion) would be appreciated.  Thank you.

[MooneyMitch]

Hi Bennett.

Congratulations on your new Mooney.  Looks great and so good you got a terrific paint job at ArtCraft.  My paint is 2 years now and looks like new still.   Best to your seat hunting.  You might give LASAR a call too on that.

[Bennett]

I tried LASAR - Old friends there, but they told me these seats "are as rare as hen's teeth".  I also tried Wentworth, but they don't have any, and even Coy at Mooney Mart. I also tried some of the other salvage firms, without luck.  As I said, I am willing to pay a reasonable amount - even a bit more than a reasonable amount for one.  Tim's upholstery is simply fantastic, and the idea of just putting a cushion on his leatherwork is not very palatable. Sometimes esthetics becomes more important  than functionality.  I'm getting old (hate to admit it), and this will undoubedly be my last airplane before I hang up the keys, and so re-sale and/or recovery of expenses is not as important as the sheer pleasure of flying an airpalne you have had customized, and that you really like.

[MooneyMitch]

" I'm getting old (hate to admit it), and this will undoubedly be my last airplane before I hang up the keys, and so re-sale and/or recovery of expenses is not as important as the sheer pleasure of flying an airpalne you have had customized, and that you really like."

I do identify with your statement! 

[jezzie]

Quote: Bennett

New to the fotum, but not Mooneys. I recently purchased a 1983 Mooney M20J after previously owing a M20K (231 converted to a 261/262) for about 18 years -with various Pipers, Cessnas, and an LSA in between.  Love the "new" airplane.  I had her painted by ArtCraft in Santa Maria - great job, and uphostered by Tim Thallock (Aviation Design, Inc.) at Pine Mountain Lake - again a great job, but for some reason only the pilot's seat is articulating, and the co-pilot seat is far too low for any of my pilot friends,  I am looking for one articulating front seat - uphostery doesn't matter so long as the seat mechanism is intact.  I understand that these are very difficult to find, but I am prepared to pay a fair price for one.  Suggestions (other than add a cushion) would be appreciated.  Thank you.

[jezzie]

Quote: Mitch

" I'm getting old (hate to admit it), and this will undoubedly be my last airplane before I hang up the keys, and so re-sale and/or recovery of expenses is not as important as the sheer pleasure of flying an airpalne you have had customized, and that you really like."

I do identify with your statement! 

[ToddDPT]

Not to take away from your focus on finding your articulating seat, but we are looking to overhaul our interior as well and I'm wondering if you could post some picts.

[Hank]

Bennett--

Maybe Tim could make you a matching cushion to use while you search for hen's teeth? That way you maintain the beautiful aesthetics, can admire his fantastic upholstery, and gain functionality in the short term while searching for your long-term solution. It would look much better than the two stacked chair cushions my wife sits on, as neither of my seats adjust vertically.

[Bennett]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.  I have designed a cushion that will fit into the seat and back bolsters of the co-pilot seat, and it will be made of the same combination of smooth and perforated leather used in the uphostery.  I still think this is a bit of a kludge, but a lot better than the commercial seat custions sold in the aviation shops.  Tim says he can  build it when I bring the airplane back to him for some minor adjustments. I think the long term, much more satisfying, solution will be to manage to find an articulating seat frame, and have the co-pilot seat upholstery transferred to it.  If I have a chance later in the day I will go out to my hangar (any excuse will do) and take a couple of photos of the interior - we did the entire interior, including covering the window frames in leather, and created new side and back panels made of aviation honeycomb, and covered with leather. Tim's armrest inserts gained us about 4 inches in total elbow room in the front. The "inspiration" for the seats was a Mercedes SL500, and Tim did a great job of following this design.

The LoPresti cowl (and associated front wheel doors and fairings):  I find this a well done piece of work - everything fits perfectly, and the Power Flow exhaust system, while a bit tight, does fit. Lopresti has a video on YouTube

tells the tale.  I especially like the two inspection covers with their fittings, and the ram air design.  When open at 7500' I can gain about 1/2 to 3/4" of MP.

I've posted a couple more photos of the paint design. The painter at ArtCraft was VERY patient with me the day we laid out the taping.  Good people.  Seems that there are quite a few good painters out there.  I wish there were as many avionics shops that will work with you with equivalent competence.

[Bennett]

I thought I should mention that the photos I just posted were shot before we re-did the interior.  New interior photos will be posted in the next day or so.

[N33GG]

Beautiful aircraft.  Welcome to the forum.  I hope you find your seat.  Good luck!

[DonMuncy]

When I had my interior redone, they made us a cushion that matches the leather seats. I'm with you, I would have preferred a "left" seat for the copilot, but it seems the only way you are going to find one is to catch someone parting out a plane and out-bid everyone else who wants it.

Don

[jezzie]

Quote: Bennett

I thought I should mention that the photos I just posted were shot before we re-did the interior.  New interior photos will be posted in the next day or so.

[flyboy0681]

 I agree with Don. I already gave up on finding one from any source. In the end I decided that I had to get a removable seat cushion and that it had to be a quality one, so I went with one from Noral. So far it's been working out fine but I'd still rather have handles on the right seat.

Mooney sure got a lot of things right when designing this plane but really blew the right seat thing. I wonder how much the option of an articulating seat was at the time of sale, maybe $50?

 

[carusoam]

There seems to be a shortage of mooney seats with two attributes:

     - Head rests.

     - Height adjustability.

I see many companies in the business of refurbishment.   They will change foam and leather seating surfaces.

But does anybody add the headreasts or height adjustability.

Is it too expensive? In the Mooney world it may be too expesnive for some, but as Bennet has pointed out not for all?

Best regards,

- Anthony -

[DonMuncy]

The shop that did my interior extended the upper bar of my seats.

Don

[Bennett]

With all the interest in height adjustable seats, as expressed in this forum, and by those I spoke to in my quest to find a usable articulating seat, I would think there would be an opportunity for one of the Mooney specialty shops to modify existing seat frames to follow the exact specifications of the factory articulating seats.  There is not that much difference bewteen the seats with rake adjustment and the fully articulating seat frames. Would a seat frame modification require a PMA, a 337 form, or a STC?   I once spent 13 months of frustration in obtaining a 337 form for my antique Cessna 120 to replace a generator with an alternator that had been STCd in very similar aircraft.  A facility that I choose not to name at this point has a used articulating 201 seat frame, but they declined a $2,000 offer to sell it to me.  One would think that for $2,000 (or far less) an existing seat could be modified to make it height adjustable. 

[Bennett]

Don,

Thanks for the photo. Were the extensions made to the vertical risers?  This would be a very easy weldment, and a solution.

[DonMuncy]

Frankly I don't know how they did it. I assumed they merely welded a upside down U-shaped hoop on top of what I assume was a shorter U-shaped tube in the original seat.

Don

[HopePilot]

If anyone builds this mod, consider me in.

[N601RX]

See if Mooney would be willing to provide their drawings of the seat frame.  If they would these drawings are already approved and this could be built as an owner produced part.  With the Mooney drawings this can possible be done as a minor mod.  Without their drawings this is going to be very difficult to get approval for with out showing the seat can withstand certain forces durring a crash.

 

Even if your IA believes a 337 is required the mooney drawings will make it much easier to obtain one.

[Bennett]

Great idea about pursuing the Mooney drawings.  I think it might be difficult with Mooney being essentially shut down, but I will try.

In response to the request for more Lopresti cowl photos:

[scottfromiowa]

BEAUTIFUL Bennett....

Looks fast and slick just sitting in the hanger.

[Bennett]

For those who wanted to see interior shots:

[carusoam]

Has anyone contacted the factory or know who the original seat frame manufacturer is?

I am thinking at the price offered by Bennet ($2K as described above), that a new frame should ought to be available at that rate.....

Stacy (Sellis) any thoughts on this?

Adjustable seats with head rests seem to be the unmet need of many mooneys....

Best regards,

-a-