Oxygen Refills- Robbed

[smccray]

Just paid a high end FBO $150 for "oxygen service" on a portable tank.  Fortunately I had both of my cylinders with me and they did both, but that's double a reasonable fee to an FBO.  Should be $20 for a portable tank.  I needed the O2 so I did it, but that's just crazy.  I haven't found an away from airport filling location in Dallas.  I tried a dive shop and they wouldn't fill the tanks.

Oh- and the kicker- they told me I wouldn't have to pay a "facility fee" for them to refill my oxygen.... my plane wasn't even at their facility!!! The facility fee was automatically added to the ticket and they had to manually remove it.

I actually have the high pressure lines- I just need to buy a couple tanks... won't take long at $150 a pop.

[Bob_Belville]

13 minutes ago, smccray said:

Just paid a high end FBO $150 for "oxygen service" on a portable tank.  Fortunately I had both of my cylinders with me and they did both, but that's double a reasonable fee to an FBO.  Should be $20 for a portable tank.  I needed the O2 so I did it, but that's just crazy.  I haven't found an away from airport filling location in Dallas.  I tried a dive shop and they wouldn't fill the tanks.

Oh- and the kicker- they told me I wouldn't have to pay a "facility fee" for them to refill my oxygen.... my plane wasn't even at their facility!!! The facility fee was automatically added to the ticket and they had to manually remove it.

I actually have the high pressure lines- I just need to buy a couple tanks... won't take long at $150 a pop.

AirGas, where I bought 2 150 cuft tanks and where I exchange tanks, has several branches in and around Dallas. If you don't have a hangar you could keep your supply tank(s) in your garage (home welding shop if anyone asks) and fill you portable there. After your initial investment in tank(s) and plumbing, filling your portable tank is a trivial cost. O2 is O2, you're buying welding gas. Refer to Pelican Perch and several MS threads. I bought my plumbing for transfer from an EBay store: Branton Veterinary Anesthesia Service. " Oxygen Transfill Adaptor CGA540 to CGA540. About $100.

[RobertGary1]

Yes it’s not robbery  it’s common. Anything under $50 is a value. On the road below $100 is a value in my book. 

 

-Robert

[PaulM]

Search eBay and craig's list in your area.. people are always getting rid of old oxy-aceteline rigs.

What I have seen is that o2 in most places (jet center) is an A&P only job, so they are essentially billing an hour of their A&P time.  $100 seems to be what I usually get charged for the 112ft onboard system. 

In the mountains you will be more likely to get a reasonable fill (20-30).. last place I went to didn't have the scott adapter, so I will remember to bring one with me. 

With regular portable tanks, you should be able to get them filled at a medical supply place.   If they are bothersome, get an o2 prescription from your Dr.   Some places require it, others don't. 

[Bob_Belville]

3 minutes ago, PaulM said:

Search eBay and craig's list in your area.. people are always getting rid of old oxy-aceteline rigs.

@DrBill bought his tank for next to nothing. I bought mine from AirGas so that I could exchange when empty with no questions asked. If a tank is out of date and needs to be tested and re-certified they will deal with it if it is/was their tank.

Works either way, I opted for convenience.

[smccray]

35 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Yes it’s not robbery  it’s common. Anything under $50 is a value. On the road below $100 is a value in my book. 

 

-Robert

Just because they charge it doesn't make it reasonable.  Clearly they can charge it because I paid the bill, but it's still crazy.  These were portable tanks, not connected to an airplane.  It is what it is- glad I have the MH o2d2 to limit the oxygen use :).  This fill will last me a long time.

6 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

@DrBill bought his tank for next to nothing. I bought mine from AirGas so that I could exchange when empty with no questions asked. If a tank is out of date and needs to be tested and re-certified they will deal with it if it is/was their tank.

Works either way, I opted for convenience.

Going the AirGas route makes a lot of sense to me- thanks for the suggestion.

Any thoughts on optimizing the size of permanent cylinder balancing that with the difficulty of putting it in the car to change it out?  What size cylinder do you use and do you find it easy to handle them?

 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, smccray said:

Just because they charge it doesn't make it reasonable.  Clearly they can charge it because I paid the bill, but it's still crazy.  These were portable tanks, not connected to an airplane.  It is what it is- glad I have the MH o2d2 to limit the oxygen use :).  This fill will last me a long time.

Going the AirGas route makes a lot of sense to me- thanks for the suggestion.

Any thoughts on optimizing the size of permanent cylinder balancing that with the difficulty of putting it in the car to change it out?  What size cylinder do you use and do you find it easy to handle them?

 

I have 2 150 cu ft tanks. I can easily lift them. 60 or 70 pounds, I guess? Ms. Google knows. I usually use my old pu truck but I have put one in Nancy's Chrysler 300 truck but that's only possible because the back seats fold down making the truck deeper. I'm guessing the tanks are about 54" tall. These tanks always have a very strong cover for transport that protects the valve. I'm thinking the HP would frown on a tank poking out of a trunk with the trunk lid half open. 

[Hank]

36 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I have put one in Nancy's Chrysler 300 truck but that's only possible because the back seats fold down making the truck deeper. I'm guessing the tanks are about 54" tall. . . . I'm thinking the HP would frown on a tank poking out of a trunk with the trunk lid half open. 

That's what convertibles are for! You'd be surprised at what I've carried in mine:  hardwood lumber, 6' trees in pots, prehung closet doors, etc. I get strange looks sometimes . . . 

 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, smccray said:

 I tried a dive shop and they wouldn't fill the tanks.

 

Typical dive tanks hold compressed air at about 3000psi, not O2, or other esoteric mixes that are not appropriate for aviation use.   I'm not surprised they wouldn't touch it.   The applications are very, very different.

Edited October 13, 2017 by EricJ

[gsxrpilot]

I used to get my portable tank filled at a local welding shop. They were happy to do it as long as the tank was current. It was always $11 done while you wait.

But I'm pretty sure pulling the tank out of the tail of my 252 requires a log book entry, so I have to find other ways to fill it.

Gafford's at KHYI charges $50 to do it. While at the Mooney Summit, I had it filled for $100.  I've never paid more than that for a fill.

[thinwing]

34 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Typical dive tanks hold compressed air at about 3000psi, not O2, or other esoteric mixes that are not appropriate for aviation use.   I'm not surprised they wouldn't touch it.   The applications are very, very different.

Dive shops fill nitrox tanks by adding per 02 to atmospheric mix done by pressure calculations using Boyles law.Thus they have the O2 but maybe not the transfil adaptor..another source is fire safety companies that fill 100 % o2 for fire fighters

[DonMuncy]

Scott,

The bigger the tank, the less often you have to have it refilled. The trade-off is that the bigger they are the harder they are to transport for filling. My larger tank is just barely within my ability to load into the wife's little station wagon. 

Bring you tanks down to RBD and I will fill them. I have never charged anyone for filling their tanks. (However, maybe I ought to start charging $5. Some guys don't come back and part of the reason may be they think they are imposing on me. Their idea, not mine)

Be careful telling a welding shop you are using the O2 in a plane. Those guys are easy to spook.

[Bob_Belville]

8 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Scott,

The bigger the tank, the less often you have to have it refilled. The trade-off is that the bigger they are the harder they are to transport for filling. My larger tank is just barely within my ability to load into the wife's little station wagon. 

Bring you tanks down to RBD and I will fill them. I have never charged anyone for filling their tanks. (However, maybe I ought to start charging $5. Some guys don't come back and part of the reason may be they think they are imposing on me. Their idea, not mine)

Be careful telling a welding shop you are using the O2 in a plane. Those guys are easy to spook.

+1! I fill tanks for folks at MRN, wouldn't think to charge them. And I agree that it's best to swap out tanks at AirGas without a lot of conversation about how the O2 is being used.

 

Pelican's Perch #13: Getting High on Welder's Oxygen

https://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182079-1.html

[gsxrpilot]

18 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Bring you tanks down to RBD and I will fill them. I have never charged anyone for filling their tanks. (However, maybe I ought to start charging $5. Some guys don't come back and part of the reason may be they think they are imposing on me. Their idea, not mine)

I might have to stop by next week!

[smccray]

15 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Scott,

The bigger the tank, the less often you have to have it refilled. The trade-off is that the bigger they are the harder they are to transport for filling. My larger tank is just barely within my ability to load into the wife's little station wagon. 

Bring you tanks down to RBD and I will fill them. I have never charged anyone for filling their tanks. (However, maybe I ought to start charging $5. Some guys don't come back and part of the reason may be they think they are imposing on me. Their idea, not mine)

Be careful telling a welding shop you are using the O2 in a plane. Those guys are easy to spook.

I’m thinking size s tanks- about the right size- big enough to move a lot of o2, not so big it’s scary to move them.

looking at doing Praxair cylinders- I can swap them out at Home Depot right by my house.  That’s a bonus as the airgas guys aren’t convenient.

added bonus- the Home Depot Won’t ask too many questions. 

[DonMuncy]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

I might have to stop by next week!

Be glad to see you again. And fill your tank. 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, smccray said:

I’m thinking size s tanks- about the right size- big enough to move a lot of o2, not so big it’s scary to move them.

looking at doing Praxair cylinders- I can swap them out at Home Depot right by my house.  That’s a bonus as the airgas guys aren’t convenient.

added bonus- the Home Depot Won’t ask too many questions. 

Yes, Tractor Supply has O2 in some locations, handled the way convenience stores to small propane tanks. I checked them out when I was looking but went with AirGas for a better selection and better price. For me it's only about once a year trip to exchange a tank so the 25 miles to Hickory is not a big deal.

[DonMuncy]

Just now, smccray said:

I’m thinking size s tanks- about the right size- big enough to move a lot of o2, not so big it’s scary to move them.

looking at doing Praxair cylinders- I can swap them out at Home Depot right by my house.  That’s a bonus as the airgas guys aren’t convenient.

added bonus- the Home Depot Won’t ask too many questions. 

I don't know the size of my tanks. One is maybe 4 ft tall and the other maybe 4 1/2. I wasn't aware HD had oxygen.

One thing I forgot to mention. With our trans-fill systems, we never really "fill" a tank. The bulk tank starts full, but you will wind up with a little less than full on the first fill-up. Each subsequent fill gets a little lower pressure. So if you come see me, you get whatever I have available at the time. That is one advantage to a commercial system. They usually have a six cylinder cascade, or even better yet, a pump system that really will fill one.

[ArtVandelay]

Typical dive tanks hold compressed air at about 3000psi, not O2, or other esoteric mixes that are not appropriate for aviation use.   I'm not surprised they wouldn't touch it.   The applications are very, very different.

I get mine filled at a dive shop, $10.

[tigers2007]

another source is fire safety companies that fill 100 % o2 for fire fighters

 

Just to clarify - firefighters use 21% O2 in their SCBA tanks (regular breathing air) and 100% O2 in tanks for patients via mask or cannula. Back when I worked Fire/EMS, almost the entire county went through a single welding supply company for pure O2 service and supply.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[milotron]

4 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

I have 2 150 cu ft tanks. I can easily lift them. 60 or 70 pounds, I guess? Ms. Google knows. I usually use my old pu truck but I have put one in Nancy's Chrysler 300 truck but that's only possible because the back seats fold down making the truck deeper. I'm guessing the tanks are about 54" tall. These tanks always have a very strong cover for transport that protects the valve. I'm thinking the HP would frown on a tank poking out of a trunk with the trunk lid half open. 

What is the volume/pressure that your tanks hold?

 

iain

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, milotron said:

What is the volume/pressure that your tanks hold?

 

iain

nominal is 2000 psi, typically a fresh tank from AirGas will be about 2100.

[cliffy]

Just to be sure- everyone understands the safety standards of filling O2?

NO oil or grease anywhere near the "filling station".

Preferably tools cleaned of all traces of oil and dedicated to the "filling station"

Fill slowly to avoid compressional heating and subsequent drop in cylinder pressure after filling.

Not pointing fingers - Just making sure its done safely. Most "linemen" have no clue how to do it safely, that's why many use the A&P to do it for liability reasons. 

[milotron]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

nominal is 2000 psi, typically a fresh tank from AirGas will be about 2100.

Thanks Bob.

I paid $100 to get my built in tank filled during last oil change. Surely this method costs less than that.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, milotron said:

Thanks Bob.

I paid $100 to get my built in tank filled during last oil change. Surely this method costs less than that.

 

 

I am thinking exchange for the 150 cu ft tank is under $25. While each time you fill a portable from it the pressure drops a little, you can top off 5 or 6 portable tanks from that $25. When a tank gets below 1500 psi or so exchange it. By cascading 2 or more supply tanks it's possible to use more of the supply tank and still get the portable up to "full".