EricJ Posted June 29, 2017 Report Posted June 29, 2017 I'm still in the middle of what has turned into a very long purchasing process on an M20J. I'll fill in the full story on it once the deal either closes or it's clear that it's not going to close, but right now it's still on-going. The absentee seller made arrangements to have a couple of trusted guys go up from here and move the airplane down here, so that I could make a check flight and have the PPI done here. This was something that the seller offered to do and I accepted. When the ferry pilot arrived to get the airplane there were some issues with it, and a mechanic wound up grounding the airplane by breaking a part during corrective action to one of the preflight issues. So the airplane hasn't been moved yet. My question surrounds a squawk by the ferry pilot, that was unrelated to the broken part, that there was a weepy/drippy fuel leak coming from below the cowl area. Both of the pilots that went up to get the airplane are either current or former Mooney owners and thought it was either the valve, strainer/gascolator or the fuel pump or something in that region. Today the owner downplayed that leak as not being unusual for Mooneys and that they'd seen that in other Mooneys as well. So my question is whether that's really something that's not unusual or whether this is a notable squawk? I personally don't think that a weepy/drippy fuel leak should be ignored or tolerated, but if this is something common then that input is useful. We're already planning to check whether the fuel pump is weepy once it gets here. Fingers crossed it'll get here next week sometime and we can get a decent PPI done. 1 Quote
steingar Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 Don't walk, run away. Lots of older Mooneys do leak fuel from the wings, as the sealant has gotten old and doesn't work anymore. A permanent fix is very pricey. Mooneys do not leak out of the engine. Any seller who says that an airplane leaking gas is normal is not to be trusted. Find another 201. Mooney made a bunch. Quote
EricJ Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Posted June 30, 2017 Just to clarify, there do not appear to be any tank leaks. Tanks were resealed and appear to be leak-free. This leak in question is below/behind the cowl. Quote
KSMooniac Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 There is a panel behind the left cowl flap where the gascolator and electric fuel pump live. That should be removed first for an inspection before flying...it could be either of those parts, or a loose fuel line fitting, or damage. If it is leaking in front of the firewall, follow the fuel lines and look for stains. There is also a drain line from the sump for excess fuel that exits out the cowl flap area...that is normal for a flooded engine.Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk 1 Quote
jonhop Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Could be as simple as the gascolator given the reported location of the leak.... it is a checklist item after all, so it's not a stretch to be leaking. The question is whether one should fly with it leaking... I certainly will not but it should be an inexpensive fix. Pure speculation whether that is the actual problem on my part though... Edited June 30, 2017 by jonhop 1 Quote
Guest Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 2 hours ago, EricJ said: I'm still in the middle of what has turned into a very long purchasing process on an M20J. I'll fill in the full story on it once the deal either closes or it's clear that it's not going to close, but right now it's still on-going. The absentee seller made arrangements to have a couple of trusted guys go up from here and move the airplane down here, so that I could make a check flight and have the PPI done here. This was something that the seller offered to do and I accepted. When the ferry pilot arrived to get the airplane there were some issues with it, and a mechanic wound up grounding the airplane by breaking a part during corrective action to one of the preflight issues. So the airplane hasn't been moved yet. My question surrounds a squawk by the ferry pilot, that was unrelated to the broken part, that there was a weepy/drippy fuel leak coming from below the cowl area. Both of the pilots that went up to get the airplane are either current or former Mooney owners and thought it was either the valve, strainer/gascolator or the fuel pump or something in that region. Today the owner downplayed that leak as not being unusual for Mooneys and that they'd seen that in other Mooneys as well. So my question is whether that's really something that's not unusual or whether this is a notable squawk? I personally don't think that a weepy/drippy fuel leak should be ignored or tolerated, but if this is something common then that input is useful. We're already planning to check whether the fuel pump is weepy once it gets here. Fingers crossed it'll get here next week sometime and we can get a decent PPI done. You're on the right path. The seller should have the leak investigated and repaired before flight. Once repaired have it moved for the PPI, hopefully is passes and you'll be a new Mooney owner. Clarence Quote
Jeff_S Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 My concern is with the owner's attitude. While it's true that some wing seepage is a normal thing, to pass this leak off as glibly as he did seems to me he is either trying to pull a fast one, or he really doesn't know what he's talking about. If the latter is the case, then I would be very concerned with how well he took care of the plane overall. Going only but what and you've told us, my intuition on this one is negative. If you're still interested in the plane, get a full and thorough inspection, scour the logs, ask for oil reports, etc. 1 Quote
cliffy Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 Finding a fuel leak is no big deal for someone trained in troubleshooting. Find what's leaking and make a decision. This is no big deal. What worries me more is the pilot having more issues when he arrived AND the mechanic breaking a part that grounds the airplane. First- there will be more items found by a knowledgeable PPI inspector. Count on it. My personal take? This airplane hasn't been taken care of for what ever reason, lack of knowledge, lack of interest, what ever. Secondly- breaking a part, except under some unusual circumstance, just does not give me a lot of confidence in the mech you have working for you. Sorry to be so hard but I've been doing this stuff for too many decades to parse words. You are on a slippery slope right here on all fronts. Carefully CYA! I don't see a good outcome. If the price is too good to be true- ? There's a reason why! Your job is to find it. Good airplanes sell for reasonable prices, good airplanes rarely go cheap. Quote
ragedracer1977 Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 I just want to know when it shows up! Hopefully I'm back in town when it does, I'd love to see it. 1 Quote
cloud116 Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 I have a '75 F and blue fuel has started to show up on the outside of my nose gear door. I cleaned everything up and tried to figure out where it was coming from, to no avail. It is too far forward to be the gascilator. It has not been flooded. I actually saw a couple drips fall on my front tire. In any event, my mechanic is looking at it. I will let you know if I find out anything that may be useful. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 1) Some fuel injectors leak out their vent hole... often an installation error. 2) both fuel pumps leak out a drain when their diaphragms tear... 3) some fuel appears to leak when the sniffle valve gets stuck... 4) some fuel leaks out the gascolator when its seal needs attention... 5) some fuel leaks all over the front wheel when the pilot over pumps the throttle...O360 6) fuel can leak out of various plumbing bits and pieces, this would not be normal or common... 7) some fuel leaks appear in strange places, as the fuel can travel pretty far from the actual leak... 8) fuel tanks have a tendency to leak if they haven't been cared for in over 20+ years... 9) it isn't that hard to give the detail of what the leak is. Have the mechanic get a pic... 10) the worst fuel leaks enter the cabin and soak the carpet. A few rubber seals or a small joiner hose on a fuel line make an easy low cost fix... PP ideas about finding fuel leaks... My C liked to show me a lot of things... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
mooneyflyfast Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 When I had a drip like that it was the electric boost pump.. If they get a hole in the diaphram fuel will leak out the weep hole.. This is not normal and needs to be fixed. Quote
steingar Posted June 30, 2017 Report Posted June 30, 2017 I was a bit more concerned with the sellers glib attitude than the difficulty in repair. 1 Quote
StevenL757 Posted July 1, 2017 Report Posted July 1, 2017 Eric, I have to agree with Jeff and others. Given the seller's approach to this, please do your due diligence and don't let your excitement about the idea of new ownership cloud safety and making sure you get exactly what you want. There are many other aircraft out there that sound like they would fit the bill better than this. Although this may work out, please be careful. Steve 1 Quote
Bartman Posted July 1, 2017 Report Posted July 1, 2017 The absentee seller is willing to move the aircraft to your location at his suggestion and the aircraft will be on your turf. It is grounded due to something broken, but sounds like that can be fixed. Sounds to me like he wants to sell it and I wouldn't walk away just yet due to a fuel drip that will be fixed....at his expense. You have the opportunity to have the plane on your home turf before you even decide to send to PPI, and I would use that to my advantage. 2 Quote
cliffy Posted July 2, 2017 Report Posted July 2, 2017 6 hours ago, Bartman said: The absentee seller is willing to move the aircraft to your location at his suggestion and the aircraft will be on your turf. It is grounded due to something broken, but sounds like that can be fixed. Sounds to me like he wants to sell it and I wouldn't walk away just yet due to a fuel drip that will be fixed....at his expense. You have the opportunity to have the plane on your home turf before you even decide to send to PPI, and I would use that to my advantage. Got to agree- good point Just be careful. 1 Quote
tony Posted July 2, 2017 Report Posted July 2, 2017 you sure this isn't just the normal fuel leaking out of the induction unit at shut down right? 1 Quote
jaylw314 Posted July 2, 2017 Report Posted July 2, 2017 15 hours ago, tony said: you sure this isn't just the normal fuel leaking out of the induction unit at shut down right? I don't get fuel leaking out at shut down. Is that typical? A leaky fuel drain valve should not be a game stopper, but I echo everyone's sentiment that it makes me question how well the plane has been maintained overall. Quote
carusoam Posted July 4, 2017 Report Posted July 4, 2017 Excess fuel is held in a tube behind the sniffle valve... that excess gets adsorbed on the next start-up... if the sniffle valve isn't seated properly the fuel may drip unexpectedly. What is important to know is where the fuel is leaking from. Some leaks are more expensive and hazardous than others... A shared photo goes pretty far. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
tony Posted July 4, 2017 Report Posted July 4, 2017 I don't know about it the sniffle valve being seated improperly. Fuel-injected Lycoming engines can sometimes experience a phenomenon (especially on hot days, wherein excess fuel drips down the induction tubes from the injectors and pools in the intake manifold after shutdown. This can be a problem, since it could cause a troublesome fire during the next start. To alleviate this, I know on Lycoming engines, there is one way check valve in the bottom of the intake, which lets the fuel drip out of the engine onto the ground. For whatever reason, this check valve is referred to as a sniffle valve. Now I don't know (because I don't have a continental engine), but I think there is a way to return the excess fuel. Quote
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