United Incident

[Tommy]

2 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Do you realize what a huge country this is and how many fly every day and we are focusing on one case of a passenger who resisted lawful police instructions.... it should be easier for Qantas. And great that they do a good job.

Multiple frequent fliers on this forum have told you the system works pretty well, especially given the volume. Why should I take your word on this supposed management philosophy superiority? Do you work for Qantas?


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I don't. What sort of argument is this? Oh, I get it. Let me give it a try.

Multiple frequent fliers on this forum have told you they got bumped many times over and think the system is tad bit broken. What don't you take their word on this supposed management philosophy failure? Do you work for United? 

[tigers2007]

The passenger may have not been mentally fit if he has been in a circle of traveling hell. There is a breaking point for everyone. Personally if this happened to me after what I just went through, I would have done the same at that moment. Crossed my arms and didnt say anything. UA should have chosen a different route after the pax were already seated. Why did they do this after boarding began or was completed? These airlines should pool money together and have empty aircraft on hot standby like FedEx and UPS do.


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[gsengle]

Nope I don't recall those posts...


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[gsengle]

The passenger may have not been mentally fit if he has been in a circle of traveling hell. There is a breaking point for everyone. Personally if this happened to me after what I just went through, I would have done the same at that moment. Crossed my arms and didnt say anything. UA should have chosen a different route after the pax were already seated. Why did they do this after boarding began or was completed? These airlines should pool money together and have empty aircraft on hot standby like FedEx and UPS do.

 

 

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You can't just refuse to comply with the police, when they are lawfully asking you to move, I'm sorry. I'm a big civil libertarian, but we all rely on rules to make our world work.

 

 

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[Tommy]

5 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Nope I don't recall those posts...


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Let me help you out:

 

Don: I'm not sure I like the system. Maybe it does provide the collective public with the lowest cost air travel, but it just doesn't seem right. 

Hank: You've been lucky. I have just a fraction of your mileage in the same time span, and have been bumped more than once. 

Tigers: The idiot gate agents should have "bumped" people before boarding them. Its that simple. Clearly some super-shenannigans happened here.

Flyboy: To me that tells me one thing, that the huge conglomerates are winning because we don't give a damn anymore just as long as we are personally left alone to go about our business.

Aviatorweb: Not to mention....ummm....I will remember what airline this is when I don't book them again, and I bet a few million more people will too.

KSMooniacs: It is also very sad that airliners are allowed to overbook routinely, and have the power of the government behind them to beat up passengers that did nothing wrong besides choosing to fly commercially.

 

[gsengle]

Let me help you out:
 
Don: I'm not sure I like the system. Maybe it does provide the collective public with the lowest cost air travel, but it just doesn't seem right. 
Hank: You've been lucky. I have just a fraction of your mileage in the same time span, and have been bumped more than once. 
Tigers: The idiot gate agents should have "bumped" people before boarding them. Its that simple. Clearly some super-shenannigans happened here.
Flyboy: To me that tells me one thing, that the huge conglomerates are winning because we don't give a damn anymore just as long as we are personally left alone to go about our business.
KSMooniacs: It is also very sad that airliners are allowed to overbook routinely, and have the power of the government behind them to beat up passengers that did nothing wrong besides choosing to fly commercially.

 

Exactly one person said they had been bumped. It's hardly a crowd with pitchforks...

And i bet he was compensated.


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[Tom]

7 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Why is it so hard for you two to grasps the reality that, in Australia, no airline deliberately and systemically overbook passengers but when they accidentally did, they DO NOT BEAT THE PULP OUT OF THEIR PAYING PASSENGERS....

-You have American frequent fliers who, by nature of elite airline status, have no clue what it is like for people flying cattle class.  To this elite crowd, the cattle are noisy, unkempt,and sometimes need to be reminded of their station in life, even if it includes being dragged off of a plane.  The cattle class should feel lucky to even be allowed on the plane.

-I spent 6 years working abroad as an expat plus a few in the military.  I continue to work with a several Aussies.  Comparatively, Aussies are more egalitarian and much, mush less tolerant of bullshit.  I think you were wrong in your quote of an absolute ban, and this was used against you to completely discount your otherwise correct position that Australian airlines don't screw with people like US airlines screw with Americans .

-This thread shows many anecdotes representing the reality that in Australia Qantas doesn't play the systematic games that American airlines play, as is described in this article.

-From Forbes yesterday: 

[Tommy]

Just now, gsengle said:

 

Exactly one person said they had been bumped. It's hardly a crowd with pitchforks...

And i bet he was compensated.


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And you and Paul together is also...er..."hardly a crowd with pitchforks..." 

Perhaps you should go onto to United Facebook page and see the comments.

Oh, wait, the CEO of United has just apologised...

Why did he apologise if they didn't do anything wrong according to you and Paul? After all, he and the crew were merely protecting the shareholders' interest and it is SUCH a big company to run with so many planes, pilots, FAs, and engineers...

[tigers2007]

But Tom some passengers are quite disgusting creatures:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1350303-hall-shame-photographic-evidence-disgusting-acts-delta-air-lines-passengers.html


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[Tommy]

14 minutes ago, Tom said:

-You have American frequent fliers who, by nature of elite airline status, have no clue what it is like for people flying cattle class.  To this elite crowd, the cattle are noisy, unkempt,and sometimes need to be reminded of their station in life, even if it includes being dragged off of a plane.  The cattle class should feel lucky to even be allowed on the plane.

-I spent 6 years working abroad as an expat plus a few in the military.  I continue to work with a several Aussies.  Comparatively, Aussies are more egalitarian and much, mush less tolerant of bullshit.  I think you were wrong in your quote of an absolute ban, and this was used against you to completely discount your otherwise correct position that Australian airlines don't screw with people like US airlines screw with Americans .

-This thread shows many anecdotes representing the reality that in Australia Qantas doesn't play the systematic games that American airlines play, as is described in this article.

-From Forbes yesterday: 

Yes I apologise for the hyperbole. This and the citizen compliance argument made up the clutched straws...

Oh and the classic "our country is so much bigger and the airline is so much bigger, what do you tiny puny little country know?" argument.

 

[Tommy]

9 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

But Tom some passengers are quite disgusting creatures:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1350303-hall-shame-photographic-evidence-disgusting-acts-delta-air-lines-passengers.html


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That's also one of the reasons we fly.... 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

OK, I haven't read all this, but we all have Mooneys so we don't have to deal with the cattle cars.

Be glad that we have more options than the rest of the ground pounders.

 

[Tommy]

Great article, Tom!

'So how do you win Delta’s bidding war?The trick is not to undercut yourself. You need to figure out how much your time is worth (there’s an app for that). Then set your bid just above that — no one wants to get delayed just to break even. If you bid below what your time is worth and win, you’re losing out. Conversely, if you bid too much higher and lose, you’ve left a perfectly good voucher on the table. The only way to win is barely..."

Sounds fun but, Paul / Greg, you know what, for most of us, we just want to get to our destination safely, on time, and stress-free. And if you think I am not a crowd, well go to United FB page and see the fall out yourself...

Anyway, I enjoyed the debate / discussion and apology for any indiscretions with my words...

 

[Tommy]

Maybe you two can explain to the good doctor why he deserved to be like this...

[Yetti]

If it would have been me I would have been negotiating to the end.  "you want my seat, $4,000.00.  First class on the next flight out."   Then they are the ones refusing the deal.

And the twitter play is priceless "I kept saying they could have my seat for a price and they sent the cops"

I hate United and fly SWA for the close in flights and do united on longer flights. 

United is in the business of stranding passengers, so 100 stranded passengers is not a huge deal.

SWA is a lot more like GA, they just get you there.  Show up early and they will plop you on another flight.  Still a modicum of customer service left.

United has completely killed off the great customer service Continental had.  You can still tell the difference between a Continental and United flight crew. 

[thinwing]

I'm a bit confused by the two videos posted..one shows the guy being dragged off by law enforcement...a second shows him back on the plane muttering to himself with a bloody mouthSo,after he was removed from aircraft (presumely with not too much care taken with what his head struck on the way Out)how did he make his way past law enforcement ,back on the jetway and back on the rear of plane ??

Edited April 10, 2017 by thinwing

[Andy95W]

2 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Maybe you two can go and explain to the good doctor why he deserved to be like this...

Because he refused to comply with law enforcement officers' instructions.  Everybody was following the rules except for the good doctor.

Why are you having such a hard time understanding that?

[thinwing]

Also the photo shows him with blood coming out his mouth but not his nose,no facial bruising and still wearing his glasses.Also his lips appear undamaged...so it doesn't appear he was beaten...did he bite his own tongue and cheek during the forced removal?Is this to "stage "visuals for the jury.Were there any witnesses to his being beaten?

[Tommy]

11 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Because he refused to comply with law enforcement officers' instructions.  Everybody was following the rules except for the good doctor.

Why are you having such a hard time understanding that?

Because it's consequential. He wouldn't be needing to resist law enforcement if not for United abhorrent ways of treating its customers. Cause and Effect. 

And FYI, not just me having a hard time to understand this, Andy, hundreds of thousands of others also very perplexed - just go to United / Time Facebook pages and see for yourself...

And how do you know EVERYONE else would follow the rules and only he wouldn't? Did you ask everyone on the plane? 

[Tommy]

Just now, thinwing said:

Also the photo shows him with blood coming out his mouth but not his nose,no facial bruising and still wearing his glasses.Also his lips appear undamaged...so it doesn't appear he was beaten...did he bite his own tongue and cheek during the forced removal?Is this to "stage "visuals for the jury.Were there any witnesses to his being beaten?

You gotta be kidding me..... 

[Tom]

Just now, Andy95W said:

Because he refused to comply with law enforcement officers' instructions.  Everybody was following the rules except for the good doctor.

Why are you having such a hard time understanding that?

Not everyone is a sheep who so mindlessly submits to authoritarianism.  Simple as that.

[Ron McBride]

I have maybe 20 hours as a passenger in an airliner in my life.  When I make plans, to go by airline, I have made a commitment of time and money.  If I book a flight, I expect that I will be able to use that seat for the time allowed.  Some maintenance/weather issues may come up to delay me, that is to be expected.   United is wrong in the overbooking, and the methods to correct this.    Yes, arguing with the TSA, Police, is not the way to go, but the Courts are going to correct this eventually.   They could have flown the employees on Net Jets a whole lot cheaper.   The negative publicity of this matter will cost United much more.  If this goes to court, the cost(s) for both sides will be huge.     Net Jets and others may benefit from this, maybe Mooney can sell and Ovation out of this.

Ron

[Yetti]

We could go down the path of Local Law enforcement enforcing Federal regulations.   If you want to have the "disobeying flight crew"   

[N201MKTurbo]

Whenever you buy a ticket, somewhere you check a box that says that you agree to this:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

It says that any law enforcement officer can remove you for any reason.

So this guy already agreed to be removed from the plane by a security officer.

[Yetti]

$800.00 is a pittance to united.  I have paid $1100.00 Houston to Phoenix this spring.  $2500 would be my minimum buy out.