How Well does a Mooney Handle Rough Air?

[PTK]

My preference is to slow down to Va when the going gets rough. Although it can muscle through it at cruise speeds with that strong wing, I have found the difference between that and slowing to Va to be like night and day. It will tame a rough chop very well and happily ride it out when slowed to Va. 

[Guitarmaster]

The Mooney is a stiff-legged little beast. This is both on the ground and in the air. Bumps are notably sharper than a Piper or Cessna.
The tail will tend to yaw, but the PC system damps that out a lot.
I don't like to wallow around in the turbulence, so the Mooney just feels better, more stable,more solid, more comfortable in turbulence.
There was a mention in a previous post about departing controlled flight. Not sure where he was coming from, but I think what was meant was small changes in pitch will make largeish changes in altitude. However, I have found my airplane to be a rock solid IFR platform.
I prefer the 'sports car ride' to the wallowing whale ride of a Piper or Cessna.


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[201er]

5 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

The Mooney is a stiff-legged little beast. This is both on the ground and in the air. Bumps are notably sharper than a Piper or Cessna.

That's a good way to put it. Mooney does feel more stiff. It's kind of more like slamming on potholes (but that's cause I think you are hitting the turbulence with more speed/weight), whereas the c/p get more of a wing rocking and pitching sort of thing going on. I find the Mooney to be very stable in turbulence in terms of roll axis. I don't really have much of a situation where a wing dips. What I can't say is if it's because I am counteracting it with the controls effectively or if it's the airframe staying upright.

[Chocks]

I'll comment as a person who has flown around 30 different aircraft including large SE warbirds. Spending a majority of my early time in a high wing, but have recently surpassed all other TT with Mooney time;

I'm with others from one perspective of ToT (Turbulence over Time), in that my comfort level in turbulence/chop is in an entirely different category than a year ago, and before that. Now, nobody likes being in a washing machine, but having said that, I used to pucker up like a balloon knot when I hit my own wake doing steep turns. Now unless I'm getting my head bashed against the rollbar, I'm good.

From a "comfort" perspective in ToT, I prefer the Mooney over all the other aircraft listed here and some additional I've been in. Reasons?

• The single wing and torque tubes do wonders for low grade instability. Two of my favorite aspects of a Mooney for other reasons as well. 
• The Mooney tail seems to handle yawing moments much better than similar class low-wing aircraft (Bo, Piper, etc) I also think the low profile body helps with that as well.
• In moderate chop, a fast low wing seems to handle rolling and elevation movements in a more gradual fashion. (The wing levelers help as well)
• The ability to power through that air mass and get higher in a naturally aspirated engine that is fast and sleek, is by far, one of the most liberating reasons. I have yet to experience that feeling in any other airplane I've flown, other than a Mooney. (I'm sure the jet guys get that feeling x10)
• From a purely pragmatic perspective, the Mooney just seems to cut through the air better, like the "V hull" comment made earlier. That's actually a really good analogy.

That's my 2 cents.

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by "Chocks"

[MBDiagMan]

Wow!  Collectively, you guys are like a Mooney Encyclopedia.  Great replies!

Let me fine tune my question: I am not really bothered by the discomfort of rough air.  My concern is how on edge it makes me flying in rough air.  If I feel in control, I am a happy camper.  In my little taildragger, I have experienced two instances where one wing dropped off sharply.  One of them was during a climb out at low altitude. 

Will I feel in control?  I am obciously not freaked by my wing drop incidents or I wouldn't still be flying, but when the wings are wobbling I am not totally calm.

Thanks again for all the great responses!

[Chocks]

From that specifically, I don't know if that feeling when a wing drops will ever go away for me personally. No matter what, that clinches me up every time. I'll let others with more time in hard IMC and mountain air provide a better response.

But I love the feeling of "control" in my Mooney. It's very solid underfoot. But you will have to get used to the heavier inputs, only because a full aileron deflection is about 1/3 of the throw on the yoke of what all the other aircraft I've flown are, other than a Meyers (The second most stable aircraft I've flown).

Edited February 27, 2017 by "Chocks"

[bradp]

I find my mooney to be stable in turbulence and feel much more comfortable in it than other singles I've flown in IMC in turbulence (arrow and C172/C182) even with my old steam gauges compared to a G1000 in the Cessna for SA. The one time my mooney gave me a shake was when I hit a pocket of what had to have been described as severe turbulence. My backpack, head and anything without a seatbelt hit the ceiling with force and it snapped the graphite rotor breakpoint on my vacuum pump (in clear air over WVa). Even then I very well understood that my rear end was very safe sitting on that carry through spar.


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[rob47v]

If you want an aircraft that will handle turbulence like its nothing, get a Viking. Stable super fast and very absorbent. Down side of the aircraft, the wood wing. Not that it isn't strong its that it requires extra care, and must be hangared. But cost of operation is the other factor. Mooney's sip fuel and give you speed like no other aircraft can. Just my opinion!!!      

[Yetti]

The response on the mooney is in 1/4 inches. So when the wing dipped over the numbers landing. It was just a slight.movement to fix things.   Wallowing like a whale is what turns my wife's stomach

[MBDiagMan]

Thanks for the further replies!

Now, for even more fine tuning of the question:  My airplane is an early model without the Positive Control.  Will it be more difficult in rough air?  Will it be more difficult to fly in any air?

Thanks for the patience for all the rookie questions,

[Shadrach]

I think PC or an AP is a huge help when traveling. Th 4cyl Mooneys are about the best cross country machines ever certified in the non-high performance category (FAA's Definition). Three to four hour cross country flights really demonstrate the aircraft's utility and efficiency.  If you're unfortunate enough to spend a prolonged period of your flight time in turbulence having PC or better yet an AP will lighten the load and leave you feeling less haggard at your destination. I routinely do >500NM non-stop flights in my F Model and I am thankful for PC on those flights.

[Guitarmaster]

Thanks for the further replies!
Now, for even more fine tuning of the question:  My airplane is an early model without the Positive Control.  Will it be more difficult in rough air?  Will it be more difficult to fly in any air?
Thanks for the patience for all the rookie questions,

I think you will find it will be easier and less fatiguing to hand hand fly simply because the plane is more inherently stable then its counterparts thanks to its higher wing loading and airfoil design.

That being said, the addition of any kind of autopilot in any airplane is a nice enhancement for cross-country flying. If you're a lazy airline pilot like me, then autopilot is almost a necessity for long cross-country flights!

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[Skates97]

I don't have PC or AP in mine but it is not an issue. In smooth air it stays wings level with very little if any corrections, a nice change from the planes I trained in that always wanted to slowly roll to the right. In rough air it obviously needs corrections but the controls are very responsive because of the direct linkage design which makes it easy to control. 

[MBDiagMan]

Encouraging responses!  If the weather forecast holds and nothing crazy happens I will be putting all this in practice tomorrow morning.  We will see if I can fly it or if I am too hard headed.

[Bartman]

Few things to add...  I agree the heavier you are the better.  I fly full of fuel and forward center of gravity in the March winds and when I know there will be significant turbulence.  Another thing someone taught me is when I hit the big bumps to pump the rudder pedals L-R-L as needed and this does seem to help. I know that slows me down and will help, and it is also a distraction and gives me some feeling of control and probably helps too, but it really does help and even the wife agrees. I do not use that technique in IMC.  The last thing I have found to help is to "relax the buttcheeks" and this really improves the perception of the turbulence more than anything.

That being said, unless things are moving in the cabin that are supposed to be on the seats and hat rack then I am in the power on thru camp.

[Marauder]

I don't have PC or AP in mine but it is not an issue.

It wasn't for me either for the first 7 years of ownership when I had an intermittent PC system. That all changed when I did install an full functioning autopilot. Then you wondered how you did without! Really keeps you fresh when you are doing long trips and have an approach to shoot at the end.


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[Skates97]

56 minutes ago, Marauder said:

It wasn't for me either for the first 7 years of ownership when I had an intermittent PC system. That all changed when I did install an full functioning autopilot. Then you wondered how you did without! Really keeps you fresh when you are doing long trips and have an approach to shoot at the end.
 

 

If someone wanted to sponsor me and put in an AP I wouldn't be opposed to it.  

I'm reminded of a few trips I made from Arizona to Alabama and back 25 years ago in my little Honda with no power anything, manual transmission, and no cruise control. Now with cruise control I wouldn't even consider a long drive without it. I'm just saying that the lack of PC or AP for VFR flying isn't an issue even in rough air, but that has not been for extended periods of time. If forecasts and pireps showed that it was going to be a long rough flight, I would just wait and go a different time. I fly because it's fun, bouncing around for a few hours does not fit my definition of fun.

[ArtVandelay]

Flying IFR requires exacting standards, I can't imagine doing that for hours, AP is almost a must for long trips.

 

[gsxrpilot]

A proper autopilot, Stec30/altitude is minimum equipment for any Mooney I'd be buying. Until TruTrax is STC'd for our birds, an autopilot upgrade seems to be one of the more expensive upgrades. Therefore it's alway cheaper to buy the plane with the autopilot. Mooney's are designed for cross country IFR travel. And that is much more enjoyable with a proper autopilot.

[carusoam]

On the east coast climb above 5k' AGL and everything is a smooth ride.  Mooney's get there easily. Other planes don't go that high for some reason...

get above the clouds. Their bases are where the smooth air usually begins...

Mooneys handle bumps by climbing above them, quickly...

If stuck below in the bumps Mooney handles them well.  But the unknowing passengers aren't going to be happy about them. Stay above the bumps until it is time to land.  It will only be a few minutes.  Enough time to turn green and fill a sick sack...

We aren't smoothing the bumps with a three thousand pound plane without some funky suspension... 

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 3, 2017 by carusoam

[jonhop]

I hit some turbulence this evening while flying and since I just got my KAP-150 fixed, I can see just how beneficial autopilots are. My J flies very well through turbulence, however I do not. When the air is rough, the power comes way back, so I don't have a sickening--irrational, I know--feeling in my head that the wings are going to rip off. Still the airplane flies with two fingers on the yoke when flying fast or slow through turbulence. The KAP-150 handled everything that today's flight threw at it including some bumps that would have bounced my head off the ceiling if I'd have been cruising at 150kts versus 120...

[M016576]

On 3/1/2017 at 11:41 AM, teejayevans said:

Flying IFR requires exacting standards, I can't imagine doing that for hours, AP is almost a must for long trips.

 

Tell that to the folks that made the F-15C....

the wing leveler in the m20C works better than the 15's "autopilot"

Edited March 3, 2017 by M016576

[gsengle]

We have greater endurance!


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[gsxrpilot]

Between the M20C and now the M20K, I looked at the Velocity's. I was very enamored by the large cabin, and still retractable gear and decent speed. The deal breaker for me was watching the canard vibrate in just light chop. I thought back to some of moderate to heavy turbulence I'd flown through in my Mooney, all the time secure in the knowledge that I couldn't break the wing, nor likely the tail.  I know there's never been an instance of the canard breaking off a Velocity, but just the stress of watching it vibrate in direct line of sight, I was sure, would ruin any enjoyment of the flight.

It's nice to know that my Mooney can handle rougher air than I or my passengers, can.

[Guitarmaster]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Between the M20C and now the M20K, I looked at the Velocity's. I was very enamored by the large cabin, and still retractable gear and decent speed. The deal breaker for me was watching the canard vibrate in just light chop. I thought back to some of moderate to heavy turbulence I'd flown through in my Mooney, all the time secure in the knowledge that I couldn't break the wing, nor likely the tail.  I know there's never been an instance of the canard breaking off a Velocity, but just the stress of watching it vibrate in direct line of sight, I was sure, would ruin any enjoyment of the flight.

It's nice to know that my Mooney can handle rougher air than I or my passengers, can.

Watch the horizontal stab on the 737 shake during takeoff and you will think twice about flying on one!  LOL!