M20J ADI preset angles

[N400YS]

Hi

 

As I start an IFR Rating, my instructor asks for my ADI preset angles during Take Off, Climb, best climb, and holding.

 

I searched for those datas on my POH and no joy ....

 

Could you tell me what are your preset angles and MP RPM for all the different parts of flight?

 

Thanks for help

 

Olivier

 

 

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[Bob - S50]

I don't think you'll find anything about that in you POH.  I think the only way to get that info is to go fly on a VFR day.  When you rotate and takeoff, glance at the ADI and note the pitch.  Do the same thing for climb, normal cruise, and holding speed.

I think he just wants you to have a rough idea of what the ADI pitch should be as a starting point for each of those conditions.  Of course, they will all change depending on the weight.  I suppose it would be best if you did your testing at a mid-weight.  So even better, load up some gas, take a pilot friend with you and have THEM record the parameters while you concentrate on flying.

Personally, I don't know any of them for my airplane.

[gsxrpilot]

There certainly isn't anything in the POH about this.  It's really just a short-cut to help you get to, and maintain attitude quickly. If you don't have any idea of what the ADI looks like on takeoff, you'll have to be cross checking with the VSI to figure it out during the takeoff.  It's much easier to know what to expect on the ADI, put it there, and then verify with the VSI.  

So as suggested, go out with a pilot friend on a VFR day and take some notes.

[carusoam]

Another thing to keep in mind...   

the attitude while on the ground in some Mooneys is a few degrees pointed toward the sky.  Setting the attitude indicator level on the ground will add to the initial challenge of being level in flight.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

  On 2/4/2017 at 12:54 PM, N400YS said:

Hi
 
As I start an IFR Rating, my instructor asks for my ADI preset angles during Take Off, Climb, best climb, and holding.
 
I searched for those datas on my POH and no joy ....
 
Could you tell me what are your preset angles and MP RPM for all the different parts of flight?
 
Thanks for help
 
Olivier
 
 
Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

For your instrument rating you will want to make a card like this:



Do as Bob suggests above. Fly the profiles and note the power, configuration and performance achieved.


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[kortopates]

Better yet, attend a MAPA PPP, the flying by the numbers presentation will provide this PAC information for most every Mooney and the provided book has all the details.

[Guest]

Or get one of those fancy AoA thingies, very popular around here.

Clarence

[jetdriven]

Target pitch by ADI in these planes works great for  a max performance takeoff or a go-around but other than that, I guess I don't see the value of, say, a 5 degree pitch target for 100 knots. If the altimeter isn't moving and you're going 100 knots, it's all good, right?

[bradp]

Or just know what a few numbers values put you in a ballpark and interpolate the rest.

 

It's easy to think that because the instrument rating is flying more precisely that you need to memorize a bunch of things for every configuration and profile imaginable. I'd suggest to your instructor to focus on what type of performance you get when you go up (climb gradient), and what you do when going down. The cruise performance values are in the POH of course. For approaches pick two airspeeds you'd like to fly your approach at (say 90kts and "keep your speed up" 120kts). Have a ballpark idea of what kind of power setting will get you down a 3-degree glidepath. The ADI memorization is not so useful for our planes- remember that we are flying simple aircraft, not airliners. Pull the nose up, reasonably, establish climb, keep scan going.

 

 

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[Fishnpilot]

Bradp 

very good advice in real life you're just gonna keep the thing on altitude and heading and get where you're gong safely and knowing where you are at all times and what's coming next is key I live near Portland Oregon and work in Seattle I fly my TLS bravo to and from work almost every day or night in winter and that's real weather let me tell you and all this ADI numbers and such will go out the window when your windscreen turns white and you're in a vacuum of darkness getting the crap knocked out of you. I have about 3600 actual now but most of that is night Dc3 Dc6 beech 18 Howard 500 and albatross Hu16 large round engine stuff but I love my mooney.But what I wanted to comment on was the flight attitude difference vs on ground last week I was resetting my aspen 1000 and it requires a level starting point for all three axis and you'd be shocked to see what it takes to level the plane I jacked it up on jacks and added another under the tail to raise it and I ended up having to bring the gear up so I could lower the nose enough the get it level I had the mains 8-10" off the floor so there ya go so don't ever think any ground attitude is close enough  to "level flight" attitude it's not at all. good luck with your instrument training 

AGI/IGI-CFII-MEI-ATP-A&P-IA 15,000 hr 

[N400YS]

  On 2/4/2017 at 4:00 PM, Bob - S50 said:

I don't think you'll find anything about that in you POH.  I think the only way to get that info is to go fly on a VFR day.  When you rotate and takeoff, glance at the ADI and note the pitch.  Do the same thing for climb, normal cruise, and holding speed.

I think he just wants you to have a rough idea of what the ADI pitch should be as a starting point for each of those conditions.  Of course, they will all change depending on the weight.  I suppose it would be best if you did your testing at a mid-weight.  So even better, load up some gas, take a pilot friend with you and have THEM record the parameters while you concentrate on flying.

Personally, I don't know any of them for my airplane.

Expand  

I will do so!

[N400YS]

  On 2/5/2017 at 6:15 AM, Fishnpilot said:

Bradp 

very good advice in real life you're just gonna keep the thing on altitude and heading and get where you're gong safely and knowing where you are at all times and what's coming next is key I live near Portland Oregon and work in Seattle I fly my TLS bravo to and from work almost every day or night in winter and that's real weather let me tell you and all this ADI numbers and such will go out the window when your windscreen turns white and you're in a vacuum of darkness getting the crap knocked out of you. I have about 3600 actual now but most of that is night Dc3 Dc6 beech 18 Howard 500 and albatross Hu16 large round engine stuff but I love my mooney.But what I wanted to comment on was the flight attitude difference vs on ground last week I was resetting my aspen 1000 and it requires a level starting point for all three axis and you'd be shocked to see what it takes to level the plane I jacked it up on jacks and added another under the tail to raise it and I ended up having to bring the gear up so I could lower the nose enough the get it level I had the mains 8-10" off the floor so there ya go so don't ever think any ground attitude is close enough  to "level flight" attitude it's not at all. good luck with your instrument training 

AGI/IGI-CFII-MEI-ATP-A&P-IA 15,000 hr 

Expand  

Hi Bradp

 

I agree with you and I understand that this request from my instructor, might sound very strange regarding the actual IFR flight condition I will encounter in the "real" life :-)

 

I assume that this request comes from an Instructor who wants to obey the school learning policy. Actually this school teachs also ATPL, Multi engines ratings and so on....So the instructors would like to have an unformity in the training of the students!

 

Thanks all for your advice

Edited February 5, 2017 by N400YS

[jetdriven]

FWIW, in an M20J, setting the AI to show ~2.5 degrees Nose up on the ground is close to zero pitch in cruise.  Or once you set it,don't change it. I see people all the time set it to zero during the preflight check, then resetting it after leveling off. 

[Cyril Gibb]

  On 2/5/2017 at 1:20 PM, jetdriven said:

FWIW, in an M20J, setting the AI to show ~2.5 degrees Nose up on the ground is close to zero pitch in cruise.  Or once you set it,don't change it. I see people all the time set it to zero during the preflight check, then resetting it after leveling off. 

Expand  

Note that loading and age of the donuts will vary that on the ground.  I once accidentally (without noticing) nudged the adjustment knob on the ground.  I use +5 in IMC once positive rate is confirmed.  It made things confusing for a moment.  Now I have a small grease pencil mark to confirm the neutral setting.

[cnoe]

  On 2/5/2017 at 6:15 AM, Fishnpilot said:

Bradp 
very good advice in real life you're just gonna keep the thing on altitude and heading and get where you're gong safely and knowing where you are at all times and what's coming next is key I live near Portland Oregon and work in Seattle I fly my TLS bravo to and from work almost every day or night in winter and that's real weather let me tell you and all this ADI numbers and such will go out the window when your windscreen turns white and you're in a vacuum of darkness getting the crap knocked out of you. I have about 3600 actual now but most of that is night Dc3 Dc6 beech 18 Howard 500 and albatross Hu16 large round engine stuff but I love my mooney.But what I wanted to comment on was the flight attitude difference vs on ground last week I was resetting my aspen 1000 and it requires a level starting point for all three axis and you'd be shocked to see what it takes to level the plane I jacked it up on jacks and added another under the tail to raise it and I ended up having to bring the gear up so I could lower the nose enough the get it level I had the mains 8-10" off the floor so there ya go so don't ever think any ground attitude is close enough  to "level flight" attitude it's not at all. good luck with your instrument training 
AGI/IGI-CFII-MEI-ATP-A&P-IA 15,000 hr 

At Oshkosh Mooney put cement blocks under the mains and left the nosewheel on the ground to make their planes look better.



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[Guillaume]

  On 2/5/2017 at 10:11 AM, N400YS said:

Hi Bradp

 

I agree with you and I understand that this request from my instructor, might sound very strange regarding the actual IFR flight condition I will encounter in the "real" life :-)

 

I assume that this request comes from an Instructor who wants to obey the school learning policy. Actually this school teachs also ATPL, Multi engines ratings and so on....So the instructors would like to have an unformity in the training of the students!

 

Thanks all for your advice

Expand  

Most ATPL schools in France work that way. 

But as said earlier, pitch attitude will vary from aircraft to aircraft as ours ADI are almost never perfectly calibrated.

But you need to know which speed / power settings to use for the various phase of flight.

For the M20J I use :

Climb :

During climb, I only fly with IAS / Power. Vertical speed is only a consequence of IAS / Power : you shouldn't fly by using the VSI. Only monitor vertical speed unless ATC asks you otherwise.

- 100 kts by default (max MP/ 2700 RPM). During warm summer days, I can increase IAS to 110 kts for cooling purposes.
- 90 kts is best rate (Vy)  @ 1243 kg (93 kts @ 1315 kg) @ sea level. I use this speed when ATC asks me to "expedite climb".
- 66 kts is best angle (Vx) when obstacle clearance is a factor. Monitor closely oil temp / CHT when climbing at Vx.

 

Cruise :

During cruise : set your power setting and VSI to 0. I use 2500 RPM and 24 In.Hg (or max MP if max MP < 24). I lean usually lean 25 LOP.

Descent :

I tend to fly a fixed vertical speed of -500 fpm by default for my passengers ear comfort . Keep MP<24. Lean as required (don't set the mixture full rich as some school teach it !).

Approach :

I usually fly holds at 100 KIAS clean config. It's close enough to best glide speed (ie speed where you need the less power to keep flying) and it's on the "good side" of the power curve.
For level flight 100 KIAS is about 14 in.Hg / 2500 RPM clean configuration. Lean as required.
For a 3° final approach, you can keep 14 in.Hg / Max RPM, gear down, flaps 15°. It will give you 90-100 KIAS if there is no wind.

To prepare your flights, I recommand you use this tool : https://www.autorouter.eu/ . It's free and amazingly powerfull. My M20J model is available with the sharing code "3724BJR".

Edited February 6, 2017 by Guillaume

[N400YS]

  On 2/6/2017 at 3:59 PM, Guillaume said:

Most ATPL schools in France work that way. 
But as said earlier, pitch attitude will vary from aircraft to aircraft as ours ADI are almost never perfectly calibrated.
But you need to know which speed / power settings to use for the various phase of flight.
For the M20J I use :
Climb :
During climb, I only fly with IAS / Power. Vertical speed is only a consequence of IAS / Power : you shouldn't fly by using the VSI. Only monitor vertical speed unless ATC asks you otherwise.
- 100 kts by default (max MP/ 2700 RPM). During warm summer days, I can increase IAS to 110 kts for cooling purposes.
- 90 kts is best rate (Vy)  @ 1243 kg (93 kts @ 1315 kg) @ sea level. I use this speed when ATC asks me to "expedite climb".
- 66 kts is best angle (Vx) when obstacle clearance is a factor. Monitor closely oil temp / CHT when climbing at Vx.
 
Cruise :
During cruise : set your power setting and VSI to 0. I use 2500 RPM and 24 In.Hg (or max MP if max MP Descent :
I tend to fly a fixed vertical speed of -500 fpm by default for my passengers ear comfort . Keep MP Approach :
I usually fly holds at 100 KIAS clean config. It's close enough to best glide speed (ie speed where you need the less power to keep flying) and it's on the "good side" of the power curve.
For level flight 100 KIAS is about 14 in.Hg / 2500 RPM clean configuration. Lean as required.
For a 3° final approach, you can keep 14 in.Hg / Max RPM, gear down, flaps 15°. It will give you 90-100 KIAS if there is no wind.
To prepare your flights, I recommand you use this tool : https://www.autorouter.eu/ . It's free and amazingly powerfull. My M20J model is available with the sharing code "3724BJR".

Thanks Guillaume !


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