EFIS Upgrade

[Oldguy]

+1 for Bob Bramble.

Rebuilt mine last year and it spins up instantly when I start up.

[Marauder]

Does the Aspen unit come with a virtual ball as on the turn and bank indicator?

It does and I think it does a good job at it. If you look at the circled items in the attached picture, you can see the turn coordinator is in a slight right turn with the ball centered. This matches the Aspen's slight right turn indicated by the AI top pointer and the AI's level line.

Just below the Aspen's top pointer is a sliding indicator for the slip/skid indicator. If you are uncoordinated, the top pointer and the the slip/skid indicator will be out of alignment. It really is amazing how much they pack into these electronic displays.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hank]

But where does the Aspen hide the VSI?

[peevee]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

But where does the Aspen hide the VSI?

In the upper right hand corner of the bottom half that is black in his pic. Here's mine, 760fpm down. 

 

Left side shows ias and tas and gs

Think of the Aspen like a 6 pack. Everything is in the same place. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by peevee

[larryb]

If your VS is less than 100 FPM the VSI disappears entirely.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, larryb said:

If your VS is less than 100 FPM the VSI disappears entirely.

Yeah, that would bother me . . . I like seeing the needle lay horizontally. 

[FlyWalt]

I may consider an Aspen upgrade. The real problem is cash flow. Or lack there of.

[peevee]

30 minutes ago, Hank said:

Yeah, that would bother me . . . I like seeing the needle lay horizontally. 

Then keep a spare? Altitude tape gives a similar indication. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by peevee

[peevee]

2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

So if you are not going up or down, then that box stays black?  

Beats me. My box is never black. 

[Hank]

11 minutes ago, peevee said:

Then keep a spare? Altitude tape gives a similar indication. 

I'm not a fan of speed and altitude tapes, either. The number is always in the same place, and it takes much longer to see and recognize a changing number than to see and recognize the position of a needle. Try it with a digital watch then one with hands.

I'm all for improved technology, but the User Interface (aka Human Machine Interface) needs to be human-friendly, and these types of things just are not.

[larryb]

I had the old VSI removed when the aspen was installed. I don't miss it.

[peevee]

29 minutes ago, Hank said:

I'm not a fan of speed and altitude tapes, either. The number is always in the same place, and it takes much longer to see and recognize a changing number than to see and recognize the position of a needle. Try it with a digital watch then one with hands.

I'm all for improved technology, but the User Interface (aka Human Machine Interface) needs to be human-friendly, and these types of things just are not.

Then keep your gyros and the associated issues. 

[Marauder]

I'm not a fan of speed and altitude tapes, either. The number is always in the same place, and it takes much longer to see and recognize a changing number than to see and recognize the position of a needle. Try it with a digital watch then one with hands.

I'm all for improved technology, but the User Interface (aka Human Machine Interface) needs to be human-friendly, and these types of things just are not.

Why don't you tell everyone the real truth -- you're a crotchety old man and can't handle "improved technology"?

As someone who started flying in the 1980s and was on steam gauges until 2013, I can assure the rest of you that the transition from steam to glass is not complicated and once you make the transition, you will wonder what the heck took you so long. The amount of information available to you in a concise package is noteworthy.

I'll give you a real world example. I normally run a full approach checklist and am religious about prepping for an approach -- even if it is a practice approach. I was doing multiple approaches at an airport and asked for the ILS. I loaded the approach but got interrupted several times when running the checklist. I was still a few miles away from the final approach course but the HSI needle was moving towards centering already. I looked at the Aspen and realized instantly what the issue was.

In the upper left hand corner of the HSI is the current Nav information. With this information I was immediately able to tell I had the VOR still tuned in and not the ILS. No need to look over at the GTN, push the selection button and determine what signal I was receiving, it was right there.

That is what I love about these glass systems. Lots of pertinent information tight in front of you. Is there some transition time required? Sure, just like when I got into my wife's Prius and tried to figure out how to start it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PTK]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

I'm not a fan of speed and altitude tapes, either. The number is always in the same place, and it takes much longer to see and recognize a changing number than to see and recognize the position of a needle. Try it with a digital watch then one with hands.

I'm all for improved technology, but the User Interface (aka Human Machine Interface) needs to be human-friendly, and these types of things just are not.

I agree Hank. Here's an attempt to combine both...

I'm waiting for G's vesrsion! 

 

 

[Mooneymite]

30 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

That is what I love about these glass systems. Lots of pertinent information tight in front of you. Is there some transition time required? Sure, just like when I got into my wife's Prius and tried to figure out how to start it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

When you first move to glass, there is so much information it can be overwhelming....two weeks later you can't believe you could ever fly without it.  When you do go back to steam gages, you can still fly, but you feel like you're partial panel.  

Edited January 3, 2017 by Mooneymite

[Marauder]

When you first move to glass, there is so much information it can be overwhelming....two weeks later you can't believe you could ever fly without it.  When you do go back to steam gages, you can still fly, but you feel like you're partial panel.  

I've done some safety piloting recently and it does feel strange looking at all steam again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PTK]

I'm very skeptical about all in one glass boxes. Our  brain is not perfect and its limited in how it perceives reality. In order for our brain to understand it needs to recognize. And recognition as it pertains to our instruments comes from how closely our mental model of what's happening is to reality. The so called steam gauges work predictably even through their rare failures. We understand how they fail and this provides us with information as to why. This is not the case with all in one glass boxes. Without understanding how it fails we are left to guesses and surprises. For example with an iced over pitot tube the airspeed indicator will indicate constant airspeed until altitude changes. We understand this because its predictable and it follows basic physics. How does a glass box and its ADC and other little software driven boxes handle a blocked pitot tube? What information does it feedback to the human brain? A big red X?

We must not confuse the primary instruments with the center stack. It's one thing to have a high tech gps nav com to provide moving map and fancy approaches. That's all useful and good and supportive to the human brain in the left seat. But it's a totally different thing to rob the imperfect human brain of the crucial feedback of information in the instruments it understands and depends on.

The irony of it is that it has been sold in the name of reduced pilot workload when in reality it can be quite the opposite. Pilot work overload! (See Air France 447.) 

I have my reservations about all in one glass boxes.

[Jerry 5TJ]

10 hours ago, Marauder said:

I've done some safety piloting recently and it does feel strange looking at all steam again.

Like watching a classic B&W film starring Gable and Lombard.

[Bennett]

Revisiting (and shortening) earlier comments in another thread. I flew behind a complete set of Dynon SkyView glass panels for several years in my former DOVA LSA, and with the sacred six steam gauges for several decades before, and after. When I completely redid my current J's panel I set up navigation and communication with glass panels (GTN 750, GTN 650, AERA 796, JPI 830, etc., but I kept my sacred six because I really like the VSI and ASI presentation of critical information. A quick glance at these two gauges is all I need - I hate digital readout of airspeed as a needle pointing to some position conveys information faster, and without interpretation. For what is worth, the most current versions of Dynon's SkyView glass panels have a alternative sacred six presentation to their normal EFIS view.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hank]

"Sacred Six" . . . I like that!!

[Marauder]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

"Sacred Six" . . . I like that!!

You can pray to them all you want. I look for my salvation in the Heavenly Glow of the Magenta.

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

You can pray to them all you want. I look for my salvation in the Heavenly Glow of the Magenta.

Got that, too!

[Marauder]

31 minutes ago, Hank said:

Got that, too!

I must be color blind. I don't see any magneta. Just a big red button, a little orange, some turquoise, a touch of blue and a smidget of yellow.  

[Bennett]

Lest you think I am a Luddite, or incapable of learning to use EFIS presentations, I had two Dynon SkYView EFIS glass screens in my custom DOVA panel (yes, I replaced the factory brand new panel with a complete custom built panel) and I kept an analog ASI. The DOVA was very critical in landing speed - stall, full flaps, at 41 Knots. Which of course meant that cross winds and gusts were of real influence. With her short gear (fiberglass with no oleos or rubber disks) and full laminar wing (flush riveted completely) she would float more than a Mooney, and at stall, just stop flying. Nailing the touchdown speed was vital to a decent landing, and reading airspeed tapes on the Dynons was inefficient to using the steam gauge ASI. Even the AOA was digital, and required more attention to look at than the CYA-100 lights in my J.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

11 minutes ago, Bennett said:

Lest you think I am a Luddite, or incapable of learning to use EFIS presentations, I had two Dynon SkYView EFIS glass screens in my custom DOVA panel (yes, I replaced the factory brand new panel with a complete custom built panel) and I kept an analog ASI. The DOVA was very critical in landing speed - stall, full flaps, at 41 Knots. Which of course meant that cross winds and gusts were of real influence. With her short gear (fiberglass with no oleos or rubber disks) and full laminar wing (flush riveted completely) she would float more than a Mooney, and at stall, just stop flying. Nailing the touchdown speed was vital to a decent landing, and reading airspeed tapes on the Dynons was inefficient to using the steam gauge ASI. Even the AOA was digital, and required more attention to look at than the CYA-100 lights in my J.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're no Luddite in my book! You're my hero. I suspect though that if you put poor ole' Hank in your plane, he would curl up in a corner of the cockpit shaking uncontrollably.