I might be off my knocker but.....

[JoeB]

HOWDY.......

 

well I am dancing with the idea of being a bit crazy and joining the ranks of the "builders"

I am thinking about trading my free time and money to build either a

foxtrot 4 from Team Tango,

or an RV-10...

I was wondering if any of you  Mooneyiacs  have ever entertained such a thought,  or had any experience with these 2 types of airplanes.

 

I am open to your thoughts,  whether  they are GO FOR IT,  or talking me outta of this crazy idea.

thanks for them both.

 

Joe

[GeorgePerry]

Joe

Before I bought my Mooney I built a Cozy IV.  See this thread for pics.  http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=115

I'll tell you this much.  There are builders and there are flyers.  But there are very few builder/flyers.  Point being if you want to fly buy something that's finished.  If you want to build get a kit.  The time required to build a plane from a kit can not be underestimated and of those who begin such an undertaking very few actually see it through to the end. 

I quit my build because it took up way to much of my free time and I wanted to fly.  What motivates you might be different.  So if a kit is your thing then go for it!!

[Jerry 5TJ]

Yes, I'd agree it is good to decide first if you want to build, or to fly, and pick one.

Years ago I had RV-8 lust bad; I bought the plans, took the weekend course, and built the tail kit.  Then I sold all that and kept flying my Mooney.  I might yet get an RV-8 -- but it will be built and flying before I buy it.

If you want to both fly and work on your airplane, don't worry, you will find plenty to do on your Mooney.   Find a good A&P willing to sign your work off, and you'll have all the weekend projects you need.

[Parker_Woodruff]

I'd want a Lancair, and I don't think I'd have the patience to build.  I'd have to get on a roll and work for 8 hours on end for me to want to do it.

[Tom]

The RV-10 will set you back $150k+.  Cozy IV 50-60k+.  Each >2000 hours (maybe 3000) to build.

You can go buy a $40k Mooney tomorrow and start flying immediately with 80+% of the performance of either of the above two aircraft.  Even considering costs of maintaining a 45 year-old certified retract it doesn't make financial sense to build when considering the opportunity cost of 2,000+ hours (unless you enjoy building as George discusses).

This said, if I was in the market for a Mooney for 2 seat use only I'd look to purchase a Cozy III already built for similar costs of the Mooney with better performance and lower maintenance costs.

[N601RX]

When we purchased our Mooney we had been looking at RV10's.  We decided on the Mooney because it was a comparable plane and for a $35,000 investment we could have a plane that we could start flying immediately.  The RV10 quick build is a little over $50,000 now for the aluminum airframe. After adding engine, prop, avionics, paint and a years worth of hard work you will have somewhere between $100,000 to $150,000 invested depending on if you get a new or used engine, prop, avionics.

I've built 2 experimentals and it is a lot of work. One was from a slow build kit and the other was a quick build.  If you decide to build pay the extra money and get the quick build.  With a quick build flying in a year so is possible. The quality of the work in the quick build is probably better than what most first time builders will be able to do.  With the regular kit it is going to drag out several years and many people don't finish.  Also stay with the plans, modifications will add a lot more time.  Look for a good complete firewall foward package, so everything will bolt together and work correctly the first time around.

[231Pilot]

I have watched the series "From the Ground Up" half a dozen times (aired on Discovery Wings 5+ years ago, available on DVD from the EAA) and get the building fever each time, but I would rather fly....so I continue to fly my 201 and remind myself of the thousnads of hours that I have saved for other things.

If I had to own an experimental I would probably opt for the Harmon Rocket modification of the RV4, but thoses high performance experimentals are difficult to sell.  Two hangars north of me is a Harmon Rocket that I (and at least a dozen lookers) would love to have, but insurance is prohibitive, if available at all.  The owner has the Harmon Rocket and a Lancair (the reason the Harmon Rocket is for sale).  He has multiple thousands of hours, over a thousand in tailwheels, NO INCIDENTS OR ACCIDENTS, and his insurance for the two is a little over $5,800 per year. Ouch!

The experimentals are fast and sexy but unless you don't mind higher insurance and difficult sales when you are ready to move on, stick with your Mooney.

[DanM20C]

Joe, do you have an airplane now?  If not, I would go out and buy a Mooney and then decide if you want to build. 

I have been dreaming about building a Cozy MKIV for years now.  I finally bought the plans a few months ago but I still haven't decided if I'm going to go ahead with it.  I thought it was going to take a month or two to get my garage converted into a workshop to build my Cozy.  Well 1-1/2 years later it is almost ready.  I thought a Cozy would take me 5 years to build.  If wiring, insulating, and finishing the garage took 9 times longer than I thought it would, the Cozy could take me up to 45 years to complete.  That would put me into my upper 70's and probably trying to fly sport pilot.     

Over the last few years used aircraft prices have fallen considerably.  There are some very reasonably priced aircraft right now.  I bought my Mooney a few months ago and basically got the airframe for free when you consider all the avionics and new engine/prop the PO installed.  A few years ago I would have had to pay 20K more.  But in the homebuilt arena, kit/material prices have gone up.  People sometime try to convince themselves that they could build a airplane cheaper than buying a comparable one.  There was a time that may have been true, but it certainly isn't now. 

I will probably start on the Cozy at some point because I want to build.  But being a realist I know that there is a very good chance I will never finish it.  I have two airplanes now and just keeping them flying takes a fair amount of time.  Not to mention the rest of life we are forced to deal with, like work and family. 

Good luck,

Dan

[Jeff_S]

I have to admit that I have grown much fonder of the EAA Sport Aviation magazine than I expected I would. First, their graphical and content makeover has been excellent, and they now have articles for even those of us who never thought about building before. But on top of that, I see these shiny birds being shown off in the "First Flight" section and I think what fun that could be.

But I also know many folks who have the "fun" project taking up hangar space, and I've spent enough time watching them sweat and grunt and profane themselves just to get the placement of a radio into a tight panel that it gives me second thoughts.

So I leave that as an option for retirement, when I've got lots of time on my hands, hopefully plenty of money and good health...and I still have my Mooney around when I actually want to fly!

[DaV8or]

Agree with others about flying vs. building. If you're buying the plane just because that's the kind of plane you want to fly, I would recommend just buying a completed one. RV10s show up for sale pretty regularly. What ever they are asking is almost always cheaper than whatever it would cost you to build when you consider your time.

If you really do want to build and flying isn't that important, as a first time builder, I would definately go for the Vans. They are renowned for their precisely built kit parts that result in a perfectly true and rigged airframe without jigs, excellent instructions and customer support. There are also tons of fellow builders out there for support and a vast Vans community.

[N33GG]

One plane that has looked interesting to me is the Sonex.  But I will need to have a lot more time on my hands to even think seriously about it.  And, I would have to have another airplane to fly while building.  I am a flyer first and foremost, and I know it.  No way I could simply build and build and not fly.

If I were going to buy a partially built or already built experimental, I would be very concerned about who and how well the construction was performed, and the parts used.  I have lost too many friends to experimental aircraft to be casual about it.  

Just my thoughts on the matter...

[eldeano]

I used to hang around a lot of guys when I lived in Vegas that had experimentals.  I had experience in composites construction (swift race chasis) and would help some of them out.  But seeing all of the isues they had, and all of the engine outs for stupid stuff,  decided for me certified was best.  Some of the lower horsepower designs were OK but the more performance the more issues.  Maybe I'm just getting old and conservative.

[rbridges]

When I was in the market for a plane, I noticed that a lot of glasairs and other kit planes were being sold with just a few hundred hours on them.  I remember thinking that a ton of time was probably put into their construction, and they were being sold pretty soon afterwards.  Like someone said, there are builders and there are flyers, but not much of both.

[thinwing]

Joeb....there is a third option,besides building from scratch or buying a flying example,you can go out and find a "project" aircraft and restore it yourself.This approach has given me a lot of building experience over the years and have ended up with some nice aircraft (that were time doable)Maybe you could find a mooney in need of a new panel or interior/exterior...you would be surprised how much work you can do yourself...kpc

[Vref]

Quote: thinwing

Joeb....there is a third option,besides building from scratch or buying a flying example,you can go out and find a "project" aircraft and restore it yourself.This approach has given me a lot of building experience over the years and have ended up with some nice aircraft (that were time doable)Maybe you could find a mooney in need of a new panel or interior/exterior...you would be surprised how much work you can do yourself...kpc