Data Com

[NotarPilot]

I've started to hear and read about this stuff recently and now I read an FAA article with a list of airports this technology is available at. I like the idea of having a flight plan beamed to your cockpit and being able to press a button to upload that into the FMS. Seems like this will safe time and reduce the possibility of errors. The downside though is it reduces the need for a pilot just a little more. Doesn't eliminate it but we're a small step closer to a completely autonomous passenger carrying plane. Now the question remains, how long before this technology is made affordable for GA aircraft?

FAA Data com article

[Hank]

26 minutes ago, NotarPilot said:

Now the question remains, how long before this technology is made affordable for GA aircraft?

FAA Data com article

Just like in flight internet service, it will cost a significant fraction of our planes' value, and will be too large to fit into the baggage area if anything smaller than an A36 with the back seats out.

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Just like in flight internet service, it will cost a significant fraction of our planes' value, and will be too large to fit into the baggage area if anything smaller than an A36 with the back seats out.

Not necessarily.

It depends on how the data are sent to/from the plane and the level of required operational performance demanded of Data Comm, which is a part of FAA NextGen planning.

A recent FAA document explains (?) Data Comm in this overview:

Data link applications are being implemented in flight operations utilizing FANS-1/A (which includes CPDLC and Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Contract (ADS-C). Data link applications operate without any specific knowledge by the user as to whether a satellite, VHF, (VDL M0/A or VDL M2) or HF data link (HFDL) sub-network service is in use. However, these applications may be limited by the level of end-to-end data link service implementation in use (e.g., ACARS, FANS-1/A ARINC 622).

The different systems include ATN-Baseline 1, a digital system and FANS-1A, which is basically an analog based system. At the present time the digital operation is known as VDL-Mode 2 system. The analog operation is known as the VDL-Mode 0/A. The FANS 1/A system uses both digital and analog components. 

SOURCE:  FAA Document on Performance Based Flight Systems -- Data Comm

As Part 91 operators we could use (say) UHF terrestrial links such as a GDL-88 UAT coupled to a GTN750.  In that case the user-side hardware may be in place now. (it is in my plane, for example) Firmware enhancements to those boxes could enable ADS-C transceiver operation within the UAT, the processor and display of the GTN750 could show the message and, if it the message is a flight plan, load it after pilot review into the active flight plan.

If we were to use (again hypothetically) the VHF data link capability in the current communications band 118-136 MHz then a low-data-rate (on the order of 50 kbps) link can be enabled via (again) firmware upgrades to a GTN750-like device with no other hardware changes. 

The hardware is the easier part.

Key to any FAA technology program final approval are the four measures: reliability, accuracy, integrity, and availability.  All are achievable with existing link technology.   Any Data Comm system is likely to have a backup requirement, but that backup is in place now (the controller can read you the clearance via VHF AM radio and you as pilot can read it back, just like your grandfather did).

None of this equipment will tax the payload of even an old Mooney.    Cost and time to implement and gain FAA operational approval, well that's another matter. The airlines are using this now at the selected list of major airports.   Perhaps a near-term question might be what Part 91 operators could do to make use of the Data Comm system for terminal clearance delivery at those airports?  

I can picture the system in use:  I'm flying along, and the "MSG" flag appears on the G500 display.  I push the soft key on the GTN750, it says, "New Flight Plan Upload, Review?"  I press "PREVIEW" and see a graphic of the proposed new flight plan.  If it is OK, I sigh and push "LOAD" and the new flight plan becomes active.  Then I see an acknowledgement "ATC Receipt" flag.  As the FAA states, it will be transparent (irrelevant) to the user how the message arrived -- VHF, UAT, or via satellite.

That sounds way better than hearing the dreaded ATC phrase, "I have an amendment to your route" and getting ready to copy all sorts of unexpected gibberish.  No more wondering, "did he say HOGGS or GROBS?"

 

 

[Yetti]

And this could also be done with a SDR/Raspberry PI and a 10 watt transmitter for about $100 and some programming.

[Mooneymite]

Some of this is still in the future and some of it that does work for cockpits so equiped has "gotchas" that have to be workrd out. 

Why can't us little guys receive our PDC's (pre departure clearances. I.E. Clearance) and our IFR releases via text, or email on our cell phones?

Most of us are already equiped. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Mooneymite

[Jerry 5TJ]

54 minutes ago, Yetti said:

And this could also be done with a SDR/Raspberry PI and a 10 watt transmitter for about $100 and some programming.

As I claimed, hardware is not the problem.

[Jerry 5TJ]

35 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Some of this is still in the future and some of it that does work for cockpits so equiped has "gotchas" that have to be workrd out. 

Why can't us little guys receive our PDC's (pre departure clearances. I.E. Clearance) and our IFR releases via text, or email on ourcell phones?

Most of us are alreadyequiped. 

I love to quote myself:  "Key to any FAA technology program final approval are the four measures: reliability, accuracy, integrity, and availability. "

If you want to relax the standards on any of those four it becomes far easier.  

BTW, I do get clearances, and releases on the ground, via cell phone now.  It is a great step forward:  I'm old enough to recall (1) searching for coins (2) using a payphone and calling for clearance on the ground (3) sprinting for the plane and trying to start up, run checklists, and depart before the void time. 

[ArtVandelay]

I already get flightplan updates directly to my Garmin pilot, it asks if I want to accept, I always say yes, review it on my iPad, then transfer it to my GTN650.  But I still get updates on the fly as well, but usually it's because of traffic or a military area became active.

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

I already get flightplan updates directly to my Garmin pilot, it asks if I want to accept, I always say yes, review it on my iPad, then transfer it to my GTN650.  But I still get updates on the fly as well, but usually it's because of traffic or a military area became active.

I wonder if there will ever be an affordable way for GA pilots to do this using installed, certified avionics? I don't want to trust the security of my flight to a tablet . . . They are good for situational awareness, though. What if your battery dies, the charging cord comes unplugged, or your favorite EFB app crashes and you miss your automated clearance change? Bad juju for sure.

P.S.--by "updates on the fly," do you mean in flight clearance changes, at altitude? How so? I almost never have enough cell signal to send a text at 7500 msl or above . . .

Edited December 10, 2016 by Hank

[ArtVandelay]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

I wonder if there will ever be an affordable way for GA pilots to do this using installed, certified avionics? I don't want to trust the security of my flight to a tablet . . . They are good for situational awareness, though. What if your battery dies, the charging cord comes unplugged, or your favorite EFB app crashes and you miss your automated clearance change? Bad juju for sure.

P.S.--by "updates on the fly," do you mean in flight clearance changes, at altitude? How so? I almost never have enough cell signal to send a text at 7500 msl or above . . .

No, I get the updates on the ground, usually shortly after I file, so all this occurs before I start the engine. When I get the clearance they give me the updated route which I already have, confirming what I already know.  It didn't use to be like that, I use to have to tell them I got an update. Only after I confirm clearance do I upload it, unless the airport doesn't have a clearance frequency, if the route is different from the beginning I will notify them that I'm flying the updated plan. This assumes I'm getting clearance in the air (still in VFR), I don't recall having to do this getting clearance over the phone, I assume they have access to updates as well.

[Cruiser]

What are you using to get routing updates?

I get Flightaware notices that my plan has been accepted and enroute notices of expected arrival times.

[ArtVandelay]

1 minute ago, Cruiser said:

What are you using to get routing updates?

I get Flightaware notices that my plan has been accepted and enroute notices of expected arrival times.

Garmin pilot app, I get email when its sent, but app will display a notice that I have an update if there is one, usually within a few minutes of sending it.

[Cruiser]

OK, probably coming from Flight Service, I see Garmin is on their list of partners.

• ACAS, which monitors flight plans after briefing and filings, and sends pilots alerts for changes in adverse conditions.

[NotarPilot]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

I wonder if there will ever be an affordable way for GA pilots to do this using installed, certified avionics? I don't want to trust the security of my flight to a tablet . . . They are good for situational awareness, though. What if your battery dies, the charging cord comes unplugged, or your favorite EFB app crashes and you miss your automated clearance change? Bad juju for sure.

P.S.--by "updates on the fly," do you mean in flight clearance changes, at altitude? How so? I almost never have enough cell signal to send a text at 7500 msl or above . . .

What if the left wing falls off? What if the engine dies? We can"What if..." every scenario till the cows come home or find ways to mitigate any added risk. I'll agree that any new piece of technology adds a potential new point of failure but as Jerry said we have back up systems to counteract that such as two VHF radios and this also greatly reduces the chance of confusion with waypoint names... like Jerry mentioned, "did he say HOGGS or GROBS?" This also allows more efficient use of the radio frequency so you don't have some jackass like me asking the controller to spell GOFFS intersection because I'm not familiar with the area (true story, that happened once).

[amillet]

Where is GOFFS intersection?  I am familiar with GOFFS (GFS) VOR just west of Bullhead City, AZ.  It's on my route to Bullhead City when the MAPA PPP is held in Bullhead.

[Robert C.]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:49 PM, teejayevans said:

Garmin pilot app, I get email when its sent, but app will display a notice that I have an update if there is one, usually within a few minutes of sending it.

Fltplan.com does the same. Sends me an e-mail with ATC planned route and then if it changes I get an e-mail with amended route.

[NotarPilot]

12 hours ago, amillet said:

Where is GOFFS intersection?  I am familiar with GOFFS (GFS) VOR just west of Bullhead City, AZ.  It's on my route to Bullhead City when the MAPA PPP is held in Bullhead.

You're right, I meant GOFFS VOR, not intersection, sorry for the confusion.