J model cowling retrofit?

[Marauder]

Everyone knows there is truth in advertising. With all the speed mods I have, they say I am 38 knots faster. Who am I to doubt them?

[rbridges]

3 hours ago, flyer7324 said:

Two things:
1. The most effective speed mods for the Vintage planes are the cowl closure and the gap seals. The 201 windshield looks nice period.
2. The access panels won't b an issue if you purchase a Kennon cover that covers them completely as I did before I began hangaring. Leakage was never an issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think the cowl closure gives much as far as speed, but I've read that it helps quite a bit with engine air flow.  I agree about the fuel capacity being a great speed mod if your personal bladder has the endurance.

[flyer7324]

Bladder endurance is irrelevant; however the size of the 'johnny' is most relevant ️️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sabremech]

When I was looking for my Mooney a requirement was that it had the 201 windshield. Again it was about the looks of the aircraft over the speed. I do believe it does help and there is a decent speed gain from it. I also know I gained 5-6 knots with my cowling mod. I still have smaller access panels for avionics that are more than big enough to allow for the occasional maintenance needed. 

I do like the way my airplane looks now and plan a repaint in the future now that the mods are done.

David

 

 

[flyer7324]

Speed mods per Bob Kromer at the Mooney Summit this weekend:

• Wax the top and bottom of the wing from the leading edge to the spar, 2-3 knots
• 201 windshield for our vintage birds, 2-3 knots
• Guppy mouth closure for our vintage birds, 2 knots
• wing root fairings, unmeasurable even with the Test Engineering sensitive airspeed probe

The first one is cheap, the second two are not. I have all three.    the previous owner paid for the sheet metal and window work.    If you check the "Today's Flight" thread, you'll see that my C has TAS of 147 knots, complete with a heavy Hartzell 3-blade air brake out on the nose.
It's your money and your airplane. Modify and upgrade it the way you want to.

If I firewall my C I get 145ktas and that was before the one piece windshield. Is it worth 2 extra ktas at 7k price delta? Answer: Yes it is if someone else pays for it. 'Nuff said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DXB]

2 hours ago, Sabremech said:

When I was looking for my Mooney a requirement was that it had the 201 windshield. Again it was about the looks of the aircraft over the speed. I do believe it does help and there is a decent speed gain from it. I also know I gained 5-6 knots with my cowling mod. I still have smaller access panels for avionics that are more than big enough to allow for the occasional maintenance needed. 

I do like the way my airplane looks now and plan a repaint in the future now that the mods are done.

David

Getting 5-6kt gain from your design, which keeps most of the existing sheet metal, on what was already a heavily modded C is truly amazing.  Solving the crappy cooling in the C would be a huge bonus too. I wonder how putting the real deal 201 cowl on it compares? 

Right now I reliably get 147kt or slightly greater at 7000-10000 ft, 2500rpm, WOT.  If I add your mod on top of the windshield that's going on now, my humble C may legitimately be able to hang with some faster models that are stock.

I may also have to relearn how to slow down and land the thing   ?

 

[Sabremech]

I'm a 154kt airplane now. I've done several test flights flying what Bob Kromer advised and I reliably hit 154kts. Mine is heavily modified thanks to previous owners. I wasn't specifically looking for this many mods being done previously, but just got lucky finding 2652W and making what I thought was a very good deal at the time. I've cleaned up quite a few squawks over the years to where it will be ready for some new paint in a year or two. 

David

[Hank]

1 hour ago, flyer7324 said:

 

If I firewall my C I get 145ktas and that was before the one piece windshield. Is it worth 2 extra ktas at 7k price delta? Answer: Yes it is if someone else pays for it. 'Nuff said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I'm getting 145-147 knots true with only the cowl closure, 201 windshield, one pice belly and a Hartzell 3-blade, which is supposed to slow me down 3-5 knots depending on who you talk to. My last check Sunday was at 7500 msl, 21-1/2" / 2500, 30.02 and 67°F OAT. I'm waiting on David's front cowl redo, it looks good and the additional cooling can't do anything but help.

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, Sabremech said:

I'm a 154kt airplane now. I've done several test flights flying what Bob Kromer advised and I reliably hit 154kts. Mine is heavily modified thanks to previous owners. I wasn't specifically looking for this many mods being done previously, but just got lucky finding 2652W and making what I thought was a very good deal at the time. I've cleaned up quite a few squawks over the years to where it will be ready for some new paint in a year or two. 

David, we missed Cindi and you at the Mooney Summit this year. Good luck with the new position and we look forward to show casing your cowl mod next year! Thanks for your generous support of the Mooney Summit. You are a class act with a class act product!

[rbridges]

9 hours ago, Sabremech said:

I'm a 154kt airplane now. I've done several test flights flying what Bob Kromer advised and I reliably hit 154kts. Mine is heavily modified thanks to previous owners. I wasn't specifically looking for this many mods being done previously, but just got lucky finding 2652W and making what I thought was a very good deal at the time. I've cleaned up quite a few squawks over the years to where it will be ready for some new paint in a year or two. 

David

In comparison, My c model seems to get a true 152 knots. I have the 201 cowl and windshield. I also have a powerflo pipe fwiw.  I usually fly 6-8k at 2400 rpm and full mp. 

[flyer7324]

That's pretty warm at 7500 (67f). Obviously a factor in ur TAS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hank]

4 hours ago, flyer7324 said:

That's pretty warm at 7500 (67f). Obviously a factor in ur TAS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a 3% power loss against the Performance Table [calculated at standard temp].

[rbridges]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

It's a 3% power loss against the Performance Table [calculated at standard temp].

I'll have to keep track of OATs when I fly.  

[Hank]

Every 10°F above Standard Temp is -1% power.

[Bob_Belville]

I have a feeble old E model with lots of speed mods (most done by a prior owner - thanks Ron), a Scimitar prop, and a Powerflow System exhaust, that pushes 160 ktas with 2 on board @ 70+% power. I can't wait to see what Sabermech's cowl will give the old girl.

[M20F-1968]

Marauder:

Why not add another 20 kts at altitude and put on my spare RayJay Turbo Normalizer? 

John Breda

[Marauder]

Marauder:
Why not add another 20 kts at altitude and put on my spare RayJay Turbo Normalizer? 
John Breda

John, John, John -- I thought long and hard about your TN when we spoke about it. My mechanic at the time was real hesitant on installing it. I would love the extra performance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rbridges]

30 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

John, John, John -- I thought long and hard about your TN when we spoke about it. My mechanic at the time was real hesitant on installing it. I would love the extra performance.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

dude, you're plane would be incredible with that panel and a turbo normalized engine.

[carusoam]

We need to call an engineering meeting...

Get some answers to what it takes to mount Doc John's turbo onto marauder's F...

Then we'll have to revive a particular thread where the speed comparisons were going on.... 

Thinking out loud,

-a–

[M20F-1968]

Marauder:

This is a no brainer.  We should talk and you should make me a offer.  It is really not a difficult installation per the STC.  For the most part a bolt-on. mod.  Legally I have all the necessary paperwork for an IA to sign it off.  The exhaust and wastegate are rebuilt (meaning essentially new - having been run for 5 minutes on the ground).  The exhaust is one gauge stainless thicker than the original and the wastegate is considerably beefier.  This was done as the original wastegate was made out of exhaust pipe stock and traditionally deformed with the heat.

If you wish to get elegant, you could install an intercooler and pop-off valve as I have made the prototypes for those and have the jigs to make more parts, but that is a more involved.   With that installation, I would probably take the flapper box out of the system.   I know a Propulsion DER who would help with that installation if you wanted to go that route and there is pre-existing data for the DER to use.  That is the route I intended before my mechanic destroyed my original cowling trying to install the SWTA STC cowling mods.  With the SWTA parts no longer available, I started again with a new firewall, engine mount and J model cowling and ended up with a different version of a turbonormalized Mooney (one which requires a J model cowling). 

Make, me an offer.  I would like this system to go to a good home with someone who knows what the extra performance can provide. 

Mine is a 170 kt airplane at 15,000 ft and a 175-180 kt airplane at 18,000 ft.

My system is the essentially the same but the exhaust piper are configured differently to accommodate the J model airbox.

I know a couple of people who have and have flown this system I can refer you to for additional information based on their experience.  (They are in Albany and Chicago)

Feel free to give me a call at (617) 877-0025 or e-mail me at john.breda@gmail.com

I am just looking to get my money out of the system as the configuration is no longer suitable for my J model cowling and airbox, and I am trying to get someone to gain the performance that is now sitting on my hangar shelf unused.

Fly safe,

John Breda

[KSMooniac]

Do it! John has done all of the hard work gathering and renewing the system. It would be the most effective/transformational improvement you could make to your F!

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[Marauder]

Marauder:
This is a no brainer.  We should talk and you should make me a offer.  It is really not a difficult installation per the STC.  For the most part a bolt-on. mod.  Legally I have all the necessary paperwork for an IA to sign it off.  The exhaust and wastegate are rebuilt (meaning essentially new - having been run for 5 minutes on the ground).  The exhaust is one gauge stainless thicker than the original and the wastegate is considerably beefier.  This was done as the original wastegate was made out of exhaust pipe stock and traditionally deformed with the heat.
If you wish to get elegant, you could install an intercooler and pop-off valve as I have made the prototypes for those and have the jigs to make more parts, but that is a more involved.   With that installation, I would probably take the flapper box out of the system.   I know a Propulsion DER who would help with that installation if you wanted to go that route and there is pre-existing data for the DER to use.  That is the route I intended before my mechanic destroyed my original cowling trying to install the SWTA STC cowling mods.  With the SWTA parts no longer available, I started again with a new firewall, engine mount and J model cowling and ended up with a different version of a turbonormalized Mooney (one which requires a J model cowling). 
Make, me an offer.  I would like this system to go to a good home with someone who knows what the extra performance can provide. 
Mine is a 170 kt airplane at 15,000 ft and a 175-180 kt airplane at 18,000 ft.
My system is the essentially the same but the exhaust piper are configured differently to accommodate the J model airbox.
I know a couple of people who have and have flown this system I can refer you to for additional information based on their experience.  (They are in Albany and Chicago)
Feel free to give me a call at (617) 877-0025 or e-mail me at john.breda@gmail.com
I am just looking to get my money out of the system as the configuration is no longer suitable for my J model cowling and airbox, and I am trying to get someone to gain the performance that is now sitting on my hangar shelf unused.
Fly safe,
John Breda

Would love to John. But after getting the wife to agree to do the ADS-B upgrade, I am afraid if I asked her for anything more, I would be asking you next to make room for me and my Mooney in your hangar.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk