Would You Use A Mechanic Review Website?

[rbuck]

Hey everyone,

I am currently working on a project for grad school at Notre Dame. We are trying to determine if private pilots would utilize a website that allows pilots to review mechanics that they have used in the past. I have certainly had surprises in quality and price when I have been getting repairs away from my home field or moving and looking for a new mechanic. Have you? Would you be willing to review and reference a website, similar to Yelp, for airplane mechanics?

If you have any additional comments beyond the questions here, please let me know! The poll only let me ask a few questions. We are also interested in what your primary criteria are for choosing a mechanic!

Thanks!

[carusoam]

The challenges that come to mind...

1) I already have my favorite choice of Mooney service while at home.

2) I can get great recommendations for services from MS people.  They know what I need and can recommend their guy.

3) I am a known CB.  Paying for unknown people's opinions is probably not going to happen.

4) RB, Would you pay for my opinion on this? 

my mechanic choice is based on his Mooney knowledge, skill, and ability to complete the job as expected, on time and on budget.  His proximity is also important or else I would go see the good Doc in Canada...

Good luck with your research.

Thoughts that just came to mind,

-a-

 

Update: The number of breakdowns that required a mechanic while I was away, has been fortunately, close to one.  I would have really liked the service that day!

[Sabremech]

I think the aviation community would be better served by a database of mechanics or shops who have signed up to a website offering their services and have reviews uploaded by customers on their experience. This allows the mechanic or shop to respond to a less than stellar experience as well as thank a customer for a good review.

A database with reviews of mechanics or shops who may not even know it exists only leaves one side of an experience documented. This has the potential to negatively effect that mechanic or shop and the reviews may be completely false. Keep in mind, there are bad customers (pilots/owners) too.

David 

AP/IA

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, carusoam said:

The challenges that come to mind...

1) I already have my favorite choice of Mooney service while at home.

2) I can get great recommendations for services from MS people.  They know what I need and can recommend their guy.

3) I am a known CB.  Paying for unknown people's opinions is probably not going to happen.

4) RB, Would you pay for my opinion on this? 

my mechanic choice is based on his Mooney knowledge, skill, and ability to complete the job as expected, on time and on budget.  His proximity is also important or else I would go see the good Doc in Canada...

Good luck with your research.

Thoughts that just came to mind,

-a-

I am honoured to have made one of your posts!

Clarence

[Hank]

Just now, M20Doc said:

I am honoured to have made one of your posts!

Clarence

That's because you're good, Clarence! You diagnosed my problem in Alabama without leaving Canada. 

[RLCarter]

I agree with David, there is always two sides to the story, and both need to be heard. The biggest problem is that people in general are 10x more likely to voice a negative experience than a positive one. 

[MB65E]

Foreflight has recently really started improving their comments section on FBO's. If I were in business for hire, I would really want to talk with Foreflight to have my business listed. I would also ask customers to share there experiences and post their reviews on Foreflight. Word of mouth is great. Actual experiences are better. I would be all for a website that would allow interaction and comment section by both owner and techs... As long as there was a way to rate the customers too. As a research project to get you by, sure. However, I it would be hard to invest money into the site. I really think calling around to a few places on each field to get a vibe of the current  scenario is the best way. I know 2 shops on the field at SMO that I'd recommend. 

The problem is that most locations don't have that many options. 

We need to keep the good shops around. 

Good luck, hope it works. Maybe it will bring GA together more. But I can see where it's headed. 

-Matt

[rbuck]

Thank you all for your comments and votes! I really appreciate them.

You bring up a good point with mechanics having a say in this, too, and there is another side to this that we are exploring with a couple of mechanics here. We are trying to see if a site like this would be a way for mechanics to put their name out there, too-particularly for mechanics who are local and don't have another good way to get their name out there. I like the idea of mechanics potentially placing feedback on pilots who have reviewed them, too. May be something to incorporate.

The idea came from this summer, when I had to have a repair done on my plane while I was out of town and in an area I was unfamiliar with as far as mechanics are concerned. I went to an MSC, and they didn't know how to solve it and charged me many times more than my local mechanic (who is not an MSC but did a fantastic job) to simply put the plane back together. I wish that I had a good way to know that type of thing before (aside from MS! I do get lots of great feedback here).

[ALP]

Wouldn't be fair without hearing both sides of the story.

Look at the comment section of Air Nav. 5 or 6 people will give a glowing review and then 1 will be totally unhappy.

An empty drum bangs the loudest.

[mooniac15u]

This sounds like every other review service available on the web like Yelp, Angie's List, and even AirNav. Users post reviews and the businesses are free to respond if they want. Why is there any more concern over mechanics having input than any other business owner?

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, mooniac15u said:

This sounds like every other review service available on the web like Yelp, Angie's List, and even AirNav. Users post reviews and the businesses are free to respond if they want. Why is there any more concern over mechanics having input than any other business owner?

Do any of these business's have people's lives in their hands directly like a shop or mechanic? I have had to defend myself over a post on the Internet from a maint video that we hired someone to take for our website. It was hours of unwarranted frustration to get it resolved. 

All it takes is for one bad review, warranted or not and it can put you out of business. Not every shop or mechanic will know about the site and can have their livelihood destroyed by a perception and never know why. 

None of the business's you mentioned are regulated like an aircraft maint shop or mechanic. 

I know I've said it here before, but there are as many bad owners and pilots as mechanics and shops. We would love to have the same information available to us to send those owners somewhere else. 

David

[wishboneash]

Any site that puts up a pilot's review should be obliged to contact the mechanic (pilot to disclose name/contact info) so that the mechanic knows about the review and could respond if necessary. Otherwise, a one way review could end up being biased. Uber for example has reviews done both ways (from driver and passenger), so an unruly, rude passenger may not get a ride in the future.

[mooniac15u]

21 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Do any of these business's have people's lives in their hands directly like a shop or mechanic?

None of the business's you mentioned are regulated like an aircraft maint shop or mechanic. 

 

How about doctors?

https://www.healthgrades.com

Nobody likes the idea of possibly getting a bad rating but other businesses have adapted. 

[Guest]

When a doctor harms you or worse kills you it generally doesn't make the national news or the front page of the paper like a GA accident, and they can always stand by "you were quoted the risks for this procedure"

How many of you would be flying if we told you the risks of crashing after your annual is 1-3%?

Clarence

[Sabremech]

14 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

How about doctors?

https://www.healthgrades.com

Nobody likes the idea of possibly getting a bad rating but other businesses have adapted. 

You didn't have doctors listed on your original post.  Still not an apples to apples comparison. 

[mooniac15u]

15 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

When a doctor harms you or worse kills you it generally doesn't make the national news or the front page of the paper like a GA accident, and they can always stand by "you were quoted the risks for this procedure"

How many of you would be flying if we told you the risks of crashing after your annual is 1-3%?

Clarence

Sounds like all the more reason to want to see reviews of the person who will be doing that annual. 

[mooniac15u]

13 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

You didn't have doctors listed on your original post.  Still not an apples to apples comparison. 

You're right, the only thing that would be exactly the same as aviation maintenance would be aviation maintenance. The fact that there are some differences doesn't mean that the online review model isn't applicable to this industry.

There are bad customers and bad businesses in every industry. Fortunately people that use online reviews are becoming savvy enough to recognize that one bad review probably has more to the story. 

[mooniac15u]

Relevant to this topic, the US House just passed a bill protecting customers' rights to post online reviews. 

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/295593-house-approves-bill-protecting-online-customer-reviews

[Sabremech]

21 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

You're right, the only thing that would be exactly the same as aviation maintenance would be aviation maintenance. The fact that there are some differences doesn't mean that the online review model isn't applicable to this industry.

There are bad customers and bad businesses in every industry. Fortunately people that use online reviews are becoming savvy enough to recognize that one bad review probably has more to the story. 

There's already a small pool of mechanics and shops that work on GA aircraft. I suspect that this will make it even smaller and not for the reasons you think. 

 

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, Sabremech said:

 I know I've said it here before, but there are as many bad owners and pilots as mechanics and shops. We would love to have the same information available to us to send those owners somewhere else. 

David

Kind of like how Uber does it- drivers and passengers rate each other.  Good drivers can pass on bad customers.

I've got stories that would make good owners cringe and roll their eyes.  I guarantee David and Clarence have a lot more.

[Oldguy]

12 hours ago, N1395W said:

Kind of like how Uber does it- drivers and passengers rate each other.  Good drivers can pass on bad customers.

I've got stories that would make good owners cringe and roll their eyes.  I guarantee David and Clarence have a lot more.

Andy,

While not wanting to hijack the thread, can you, David and/or Clarence share some of the characteristics of those owners you would not miss going somewhere else? Like the 85% of auto drivers who think they are above average drivers, I want to believe I don't do things to irritate my mechanic or make his life more difficult, but not being a mechanic, I can only do what I think is right. Any suggestions or examples of either side of the fence would be appreciated.

And if this needs to start another thread, that would be fine.

[Andy95W]

John- since you obviously care about how your mechanic perceives you, you are not one of the bad ones.

Here are a couple of examples that spring to mind.

I was working at a shop in central Texas and helping on a Bonanza annual.  The owner needed new engine mounts, so we installed them and replaced his old semi-rusted engine mount bolts and nuts.  When he got his bill, he complained that we shouldn't charge him for new hardware because his old hardware was just fine.  (About $20.)  The shop owner took the hardware off his bill because it wasn't worth the argument.

The guy got in his brand-new Mercedes Benz and drove away.  Our shop rate (mid '90s) was $45/hour.  The rate at the Mercedes dealer was probably $70/hour.  It annoyed us that the guy probably just stroked a check when he got his car worked on, but had to argue about $20 with us.

---------

I did an annual on a Mooney.  The owner had been taking his airplane to a big shop (not an MSC) and paying about $3000/year (about 12 years ago).  We charged him less than $1500 and did a fair amount of work.  A few days later he came back complaining that all of his inspection panels had loose screws and he had to tighten them all himself.  I asked to see what he meant, and he put his electric drill/driver on and cranked them down way too tight.  (This explained why we had such a hard time getting them off.)

I showed him the reference from the Service Manual (see the NOTE: below) but he continued to bad-mouth us to other airplane owners that we did sloppy work.