G1000 Adsb now what?

[Danb]

Now that Garmin has a path for us Stec G1000 guys and Mooney has not provided there proposal to us yet now what

1. Will the shops become overrun with installs on the Bo's, C models ,Diamonds? So we're in never never land?

2 Do I wait for Mooneys solution?

3.Schedule to get the new Garmin now?

Here's what I know, A shop in Pa. Is now up to August for the new system, $2000, deposit. Not bad , but if I jump the gun is it to soon or if I wait will I be 18 months out?

The dealer quoted me a ballpark, Adsb in and out for the G1000 over 18000 feet..for under $9000,  very tempting, act now I have a slot in August

wait for Mooney or another solution I'd be rolling the dice.

For all of us who have been assured we were being  screwed by Mooney and Garmin their is a nice solution at a reasonable price 

 

WHAT to DO?

 

 

 

[carl]

Can

3 minutes ago, Danb said:

Mooney has not provided there proposal to us yet

Can you expand on this? Is this about electronics? Mooney is coming out with something?

I have an E, so it may just be a vintage vs modern issue.

 

I still think alot of electronic products are not even introduced yet , sun and fun and Oshkosh will be busy just because people are all waiting and want to see 

what is new and cheaper . I am thinking of attending just for the electronic shows. I think prices will crumble before or just after 2020 So how long you can wait is an issue.

After 2020, this high price stuff becomes out of date. All the players who are forced to use it will have had to get it. At that time there will be no lines and the price will be a

firesale. But you have to stay out of the controlled airspace to wait.

[cliffy]

There's always Google and Amazon that may come up with a cheap alternative before 2020

[Danb]

Sure Carl..I'm basically speaking about those of us who have the G1000 with no current Adsb solution .

garmin's remote Adsb I was told fulfills our mission of having Adsb in/out above 18000 ft. I first spoke with Garmin to ascertain if it was Christmas on Valentine's Day. I then Called Don at Longview Tx. for his knowledge and he stated he was not sure but will find out for us. I reviewed Diamond,Beech.s and Cessna's blog for info. Then talked to a couple Garmin dealers for input. I feel we need to start somewhere and this forum is remarkable place for info.

 

im tentatively sch. for the install in August, was told the remote model will display on the g1000 panel and Bluetooth to my iPad and/or other devices., will need antenna's, maybe software updates from Mooney(they not sure regarding that) and not sure is an encoder is required. The Garmin engineers when. they receive my serial numbers and info. from Mooney will provide the avionics dealer with the procedure needed for my plane. Now I'm a lowly accountant and not knowledgeable re. mechanical stuff, I think I can operate a screwdriver? Any and all info will be greatly appreciated. 

 

[Hank]

I'm a fan of the "stay out if their airspace and wait" approach. When they crank up user fees, I'll stop using ATC at all and revert back to VFR. I will listen to ATC as I pass Atlanta, but I won't talk to them. Bet this will be a popular approach. 

But  Dan, installing the new Garmin ADS-B box will be mostly programming and wiring, with little application for mechanical skills. Best of luck to the rest of the G1000 crowd. Look out for the rest of us, at least my Mode C squawk should show up on the box for you.

[Yetti]

Theoretically if you want to be compliant, you could install an independent solution such as Freeflight or Lynx for $2.5 AMU   It just would not show up on the big panel mount screen and you would have to run an Ipad/Android for traffic

 

[Jeff_S]

Dan, I think you're jumping the gun to schedule an install of the GTX 3x5 without knowing what Mooney's total solution will be.  You have 3 and 1/2 years until the requirements actually kick in. Mooney is likely to come up with a total solution that addresses WAAS approaches as well as ADS-B, hopefully within the next 3-6 months. Then you will know what all your options are.  Unless you are just dying to spend money to get ADS-B out right away, I think it makes sense to wait a bit longer.  That's just my $.02.

[Marauder]

Dan, I think you're jumping the gun to schedule an install of the GTX 3x5 without knowing what Mooney's total solution will be.  You have 3 and 1/2 years until the requirements actually kick in. Mooney is likely to come up with a total solution that addresses WAAS approaches as well as ADS-B, hopefully within the next 3-6 months. Then you will know what all your options are.  Unless you are just dying to spend money to get ADS-B out right away, I think it makes sense to wait a bit longer.  That's just my $.02.

Dan -- I second Jeff's comments. The GTX-345 does not give you WAAS approach capability. The GPS driving the G1000 I believe is a GNC remote box that still would be a non-WAAS box even if you put a GTX-345 in.

As Yetti mentioned, if you want to be compliant now, there are cheaper solutions.

Although I'm not in the Mooney G1000 dilemma, I'm still waiting to figure out what Garmin will offer than will integrate with my Aspens. With the roll-out of these two new boxes, L-3 getting into bed with Aspen and the future solutions potentially on the horizon, I'm waiting this technology game out.

If 2019 comes rolling around and there still isn't a breakthrough solution for my situation. I'm going to buy a cheap secondhand GTX-330 that one of you guys are going to trade-in and wait some more...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

Theoretically if you want to be compliant, you could install an independent solution such as Freeflight or Lynx for $2.5 AMU   It just would not show up on the big panel mount screen and you would have to run an Ipad/Android for traffic

 

Nah, flying shouldn't be dependent on an uncertified, battery-powered unit running often-modified, uncertified software. Except for Experimental aircraft. I'll just avoid the whole mess, since I have no panel space for a large traffic display.

[Danb]

Thanx for all the input that's been going through my thought process. My wife is also strongly against jumping the gun and were 1400+ days from 2020. I agree waiting makes sense especially if there becomes an economic war(poor choice of wording) between vendors. The best thing that could happen to us guys is for some company get a non waas g1000 plane and develope an stc to make our ships compliant for Adsb and waas approaches. Maybe the light Garmin has started may instill other vendors to realize that there is millions of dollars to be made for there research and development. I'm sure there are many capable folks on this web sight with the tech. skills to develope a product to fit the needs of the many G1000 planes out there. I personally am getting tired of being held by my balls for such a mess not created by us. 

[Danb]

59 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Dan -- I second Jeff's comments. The GTX-345 does not give you WAAS approach capability. The GPS driving the G1000 I believe is a GNC remote box that still would be a non-WAAS box even if you put a GTX-345 in.

As Yetti mentioned, if you want to be compliant now, there are cheaper solutions.

Although I'm not in the Mooney G1000 dilemma, I'm still waiting to figure out what Garmin will offer than will integrate with my Aspens. With the roll-out of these two new boxes, L-3 getting into bed with Aspen and the future solutions potentially on the horizon, I'm waiting this technology game out.

If 2019 comes rolling around and there still isn't a breakthrough solution for my situation. I'm going to buy a cheap secondhand GTX-330 that one of you guys are going to trade-in and wait some more...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I believe you guys are correct.

[Yetti]

So system wise.  g1000 already has TIS traffic.  What box sends that?  What is the data format?   Emulate that protocol and and send it to the same input on the G1000.

 

That should not cost 9 AMUs

[Marauder]

So system wise.  g1000 already has TIS traffic.  What box sends that?  What is the data format?   Emulate that protocol and and send it to the same input on the G1000.

 

That should not cost 9 AMUs

They have TIS-A generated by the ES transponder.

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[Deb]

The issue Dan is referring to is a specific G1000 issue, and appears partly related to the G1000 software being part of the airplane's TC.

It is possible to turn off the G1000 transponder GTX 33 before each flight, or possibly configure the G1000 not to turn on the transponder at all. Then install a transponder that has an STC for a G1000 Bravo (in Dan's case). I don't know if that exists. At any rate, that won't get ADS-B in displayed on the G1000.

Mooney's current ADS-B out solution is the GTX 33ES. It is a 1090 MHz out box only, and requires a WAAS position source. Garmin has no plans to provide the GTX 33ES with its own WAAS source. It's not an ADS-B solution at all. If you go with the GTX 33ES, then you have to wait for Mooney to pay Garmin to provide the WAAS software for the STEC autopilot which Mooney must then get certified by the FAA. (And, Trek from Garmin says Mooney hasn't finished the GTX 33ES ADS-B out compliance with the FAA). You'll also need two GPS receiver units (GIA 63W) and 2 WAAS antennas (antennae?).

A GDL-88 is a 978 UAT ADS-B out and dual band ADS-B in solution. However, for it to work with the G1000 requires software from Mooney via Garmin. It will display traffic and weather on the G1000, and with FlightStream, will display on a tablet with ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot. FlightStream will also alllow flight plan transfer to and from a tablet. Although there is a version if the GDL 88 with its own WAAS position source, it's unclear whether Garmin will offer this for a G1000 installation (so far no). Thus, this solution will also require the WAAS software which Mooney doesn't have yet, and the two GIA 63Ws and antennas. Garmin may have the GDL 88 software for the G1000 ready next year, but Mooney has not yet finalized anything with Garmin, according to Trek.

The GTX 345 is independent of the G1000 software and Mooney's TC, and is a 1090 MHz out, dual band in ADS-B solution. It is STC'd for the Mooney G1000 airplanes (as well as a whole long list of other airplanes). It has its own WAAS position source, and will display ADS-B traffic and weather on the G1000, and on tablets via Bluetooth. It does not support FlightStream and flight plan transfers. It will pass through current TIS and TAS traffic for display on the G1000. It fits (with some rewiring and a different bracket) in the slot where the GTX 33 is currently, but it does require a WAAS GPS antenna and another antenna to receive the ADS-B in traffic and weather. As stated above, it does not provide WAAS navigation data, so no WAAS approaches and vertical navigation.

So where does this leave Dan? You can wait for the WAAS STEC G1000 software and hardware and hope it's not too expensive. Then the list price is only $5000 for the GTX 345 (plus installation) and you don't need the GTX 33ES, the GDL 88, or the software from Garmin to make that work. You only give up FlightStream with the ability to transfer flight plans to and from a tablet. If you really want FlightStream and have upgraded to WAAS, then you can opt for a GTX 33ES and a GDL 88, and wait for the software for the GDL 88. This assumes Mooney will get the software from Garmin (the TC issue).

Getting the GTX 345 now will cost $800 more (plus GPS antenna and installation) if Dan ultimately decides to upgrade to WAAS. It also precludes FlightStream. But he will get ADS-B traffic and weather on his G1000 now, if that's an important consideration.

It seems that the installation of the GTX 345 is going to be easier and less expensive than installing a GDL 88. it would be easier for Mooney to not support the GDL 88, although that might be problematic for the airplanes now being delivered with a GTX 33ES.

Since ADS-B is not required until 2020, deciding what to do in 2018 is probably enough time to get it installed, and you'll know whether you're getting WAAS navigation. If ADS-B is really important now, then you're possibly spending ~$1000 on a WAAS position source you may not need later on. Either way, unless you really want FlightStream, there's no need for the GDL 88. It seem like it's a major advantage that the GTX 345 is not tied to the TC but STC'd by Garmin, and is relatively independent of the G1000 software. It will only require standard G1000 software; the current software 401.30 from 2008 should work, although GDU version 16 (which Mooney has not released if it has it) will support Garmin's Trend Tracking technology. Waiting will also allow time to sort out the GDL 88 situation (for FlightStream).

 

[Danb]

Dave...your still the best!  

[Deb]

Thanks Dan, you're too kind!