Mooney Test Drive

[Hank]

But Clarence, the bit about an Ovation crossing the U.S. With two people does not require "heavy modifications" nor departing "heavily overloaded, just clearing the airport fence." It's a standard, run of the mill O3, with two people. Who rode along with Max in his overloaded, heavily modified Comanche? It's a great record, but the trips are far from comparable.

[M20F]

2 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

You may want to read the Max Conrad story "Into the Wind" It covers his many distance records set in a Comanche.  The cross country Mooney while impressive, is just a warm up for a Comanche.

A highly modified Comanche flying grossly overweight versus a generic E with long range tanks, not really apples to apples comparison.

[N201MKTurbo]

Back in '84 when I was looking to buy my first plane, I was torn between a M20F and a Comanche 250. Not meaning to cause trouble, but they go pretty dang close to the same speed. Seeing that I was 26 and a CB in training, I choose 10 GPH over 15 GPH.

I think I made the right decision.

[Shadrach]

10 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Not that Mooney's aren't great airplanes, I'm pretty sure my Comanche will do things that an Ovation can't do.  It has better payload, better climb faster cruise flies off grass etc. Its a case of blondes, brunettes and red heads, the choice is up to the individual.  

I've owned 2 quitenice E models in the past, just picked up a customers J on Friday, after flying it I longed for the exhilarating performance of my Comanche.

As for speed 190 KTAS is not really hard, for a stock 52 year old airplane, mine is closing in on 200.

Clarence

I'm sure it does all of those things but you keep referring to Comanches in general, not the 400. We all know what a remarkable airplane yours is (We even tolerate being told so on a Mooney forum every few hours ). The truth is that your plane is in a rare and unique HP class for a single.  I like PA24s. My hangar neighbor has one of the nicest 260s you'll ever meet, but it's a 155kt airplane on ~14gph.  I have passed our local PA24-180 in flight. It is 130kt airplane give or take a few Ktas. A C model will out run it and though less roomy, carry about the same payload. They are Indeed nice planes, but the notion that they're so much better than anything else in class that flying one will make you forget all others is a myth.  Also, while 192kts is impressive speed, the interwebs are full of flight tests that show that an Ovation will do that with 120 less hp.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Shadrach

[Guest]

6 hours ago, M20F said:

A highly modified Comanche flying grossly overweight versus a generic E with long range tanks, not really apples to apples comparison.

The only mod. Was more fuel.

Clarence

[CWM20f]

Supercop-

Im about an hour west of you (F56). M20F 200hp.  Be glad to give a ride if you don't find anyone closer.  Have 2 F model mooneys in the hanger and one piper 180. We walk away from him with basically the same useful load. 

[M20F]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The only mod. Was more fuel.

Clarence

The article you referenced used the phrase "many modifications" and he departed 2000lbs over gross, the E flew stock with long rang tanks coast to coast (i.e. non-experimental).  I think Comanche's are great planes and have said many times here my search included Comanche's and Bonanza's, NM/G though is a contest a Mooney is going to win against any production plane I can think of. 

For fun I did the math using the figures listed for Max's flight and what I recall as a 4.8GPH burn by the E pilot @ 104kts TAS.  The Mooney would make the same trip about 1000lbs over gross, doable and probably able to push the envelope even further.  With a lot of these records it really just comes down to the money and will to actually go do it more than anything else.  Somebody wants to give me the money, I am happy to go break his record!

What you need to do is put a Rayjay on that 400 for me :-)

[Shadrach]

10 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Just don't look at the Baron fuel flow.  20 GPH.

At 190kts + I'm betting it's closer to 23 GPH.

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I've owned 2 quitenice E models in the past, just picked up a customers J on Friday, after flying it I longed for the exhilarating performance of my IO-720.

FIFY! There's no replacement for displacement!

[M20F]

Just now, Shadrach said:

At 190kts + I'm betting it's closer to 87 LPH.

Fixed that for Clarence.

[Marauder]

7 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

At 190kts + I'm betting it's closer to 23 GPH.

Brett Nicollete, former Mooney owner, posted some videos on the fuel flow for his Baron that was flying behind a couple of IO-550s. He was showing 30 GPH per side on take-off and running roughly 16 GPH per side while truing at 210KTAS. Think he normally expects in the high 190s.

 

 

[Shadrach]

Just now, Marauder said:

Brett Nicollet, former Mooney owner, posted some videos on the fuel flow for his Baron that was flying behind a couple of IO-550s. He was showing 30 GPH per side on take-off and running roughly 16 GPH per side while truing at 210KTAS.

Yep for sure on a 58, a 55 will burn 26ish. I was referring to Clarence's 8cyl muscle machine.

[Supercop0184]

Sounds great i really appreciate all the help I have gotten from everyone here!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Summary of what we probably covered...

1) Fuel injected Mooneys are the most efficient, fastest,  factory built, NA four seat, retractable plane on or off the planet.

2) The FI system allows finer tuning of fuel distribution that you can't get from a carburetor.  More modern intakes are valuable.

3) carb ice is only a small concern for Mooneys. Evaporating fuel in a carb has Tendency to lower the temp which can lead to freezing.  Carb heat and carb temp are good to have working.

4) Entry level for Mooneys starts with the B,C,D.

5) these lead to the next steps of J, K, M, R and S....

6) Your last Mooney may just be an E.  A fuel injected speedster for Two +....

7) Some people say to buy your last plane first....  See if the M20E would make sense.

8) The IO720 is a fabulous twin engine with a single prop.

9) if you like speed and efficiency Go Mooney!

10) If you like ultimate speed Go 310hp Mooney Acclaim!

The nice part of starting out at the entry level Mooney is the knowledge that you pick up along the way applies to the next plane you purchase.

Go Mooney!

-a-

[HRM]

23 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

I would suggest you NEVER fly in a Mooney.  You won't be satisfied with your Cherokee afterward.  

Truer words never spoken.

Also, since the OP's handle is 'Supercop' he is hardly going to be satisfied with any Mooney other than an E.

[kpaul]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Entry level for Mooneys starts with the B,C,D.

5) these lead to the next steps of J, K, M, R and S....

6) Your last Mooney may just be an E.  A fuel injected speedster for Two +....

Seems to be a problem with your alphabet!  You left out the two original Long body Mooneys, the G and F.  Pretty sure they fall in between the E and J. 

[MyNameIsNobody]

I have NEVER seen an E owner pine for or slam a C.  I wonder why that is?  HMMMMmmmmm....

[MyNameIsNobody]

Super Cop:

I flew an Arrow after the Cherokee.  I never went back to flying a Cherokee.  I flew an M20E after the Arrow...I have never "missed" the Arrow.  The Mooney is just a fast BETTER Arrow.

You should fly an Arrow if you like your Cherokee.

DO NOT fly a Mooney.  You will "skip" the Arrow/not like the speed loss/efficiency vs. Mooney.  I don't care if it is a C or an E.  Skip the G.  Get the F if you want more space.  Leg room is adequate in the C&E unless you have an inseam over 32".  Seat goes WAY forward and you load pilot Back seat behind pilot/back seat behind co-pilot then co-pilot.  I hauled my high school age kids with no issues...

Enjoy your step up in the world.

[Supercop0184]

These responses are cracking me up!!!

6 hours ago, HRM said:

Truer words never spoken.

Also, since the OP's handle is 'Supercop' he is hardly going to be satisfied with any Mooney other than an E.

CORRECT!!! LOL! Actually I think the C is good for me! HOWEVER Many FINE PEEPS here in the forum have offered me test drives in their birds. I WILL Be taking them up on these rides. I feel the need for speed. 

5 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Super Cop:

I flew an Arrow after the Cherokee.  I never went back to flying a Cherokee.  I flew an M20E after the Arrow...I have never "missed" the Arrow.  The Mooney is just a fast BETTER Arrow.

You should fly an Arrow if you like your Cherokee.

DO NOT fly a Mooney.  You will "skip" the Arrow/not like the speed loss/efficiency vs. Mooney.  I don't care if it is a C or an E.  Skip the G.  Get the F if you want more space.  Leg room is adequate in the C&E unless you have an inseam over 32".  Seat goes WAY forward and you load pilot Back seat behind pilot/back seat behind co-pilot then co-pilot.  I hauled my high school age kids with no issues...

Enjoy your step up in the world.

I have a friend that wants an arrow. While they are very useful airplanes, all they are are cherokees with retracts. They look slow they dont look like the corvette of Aviation. I WANT THE CORVETTE of vintage aviation. lol (Single engine economically of course) 

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Summary of what we probably covered...

1) Fuel injected Mooneys are the most efficient, fastest,  factory built, NA four seat, retractable plane on or off the planet.

2) The FI system allows finer tuning of fuel distribution that you can't get from a carburetor.  More modern intakes are valuable.

3) carb ice is only a small concern for Mooneys. Evaporating fuel in a carb has Tendency to lower the temp which can lead to freezing.  Carb heat and carb temp are good to have working.

4) Entry level for Mooneys starts with the B,C,D.

5) these lead to the next steps of J, K, M, R and S....

6) Your last Mooney may just be an E.  A fuel injected speedster for Two +....

7) Some people say to buy your last plane first....  See if the M20E would make sense.

8) The IO720 is a fabulous twin engine with a single prop.

9) if you like speed and efficiency Go Mooney!

10) If you like ultimate speed Go 310hp Mooney Acclaim!

The nice part of starting out at the entry level Mooney is the knowledge that you pick up along the way applies to the next plane you purchase.

Go Mooney!

-a-

I think I WILL! Contacted  a guy yesterday about one listed in TAP!!

 

Y'all do a search for Shameless Opinion Seeking Part 2 and read the thread, including my post which is the very last! There is also a Shameless opinion seeking (not Part 2) but i posted in part 2. Frustrating! 

[HRM]

16 hours ago, Supercop0184 said:

These responses are cracking me up!!!

CORRECT!!! LOL! Actually I think the C is good for me! HOWEVER Many FINE PEEPS here in the forum have offered me test drives in their birds. I WILL Be taking them up on these rides. I feel the need for speed. 

Alas, the C is a fantastic bird, and it is, after all, a Mooney; but only one Mooney is Super.

Three birds for the vintage pilots under the sky,
The rest for the money-bags in their hangars of stone,
None for Mortal Men doomed not to fly,
One for the IA on his dark throne
In the Land of Mooney where the Mooneys fly.
One E to rule them all, One E to find them,
One E to bring them all and in the blue sky bind them
In the Land of Mooney where the Super 21's fly.

[Pictreed]

J, I'm waiting on some title work for some property to conclude so we haven't purchased the E yet but we should be able to do it next month.  You could pop down two hangars to your South and I'll take you up when we get it.

Your Cherokee looks nice.  You should have no problem selling it. 

I flew the blue and white '65 E that hangars to the West of us last month and it was a blast. 

I think I got your number, I'll send you a text.  I paid an instructor to be a safety pilot yesterday, I should have called you.  If you want to be a safety in the 172RG, let me know, I need 4 more approaches to minimums by May.  That will also give you some experience in a complex if you haven't been in one.  

Tim

[gsxrpilot]

I took James up for a quick 15 minute flight in my C and I think he is suitably impressed. But he's gonna have to find his own because I kinda like mine.

Good flying with you James, I hope you made it back to Austin before those other two cops with you died of starvation. I'm probably gonna be at Spinks with the Mooney next Sunday if you want to bring your wife by to have a look and go for a ride.  My daughter lives in Crowley.

Paul

[DXB]

On 2/8/2016 at 4:19 PM, Supercop0184 said:

 

1. Can anyone compare the Cherokee 180 to the Mooney 180, and give me pros and cons to doing the switch

 

I trained in a Piper product, and then bought the 180hp (C model) Mooney right after finishing PPL. I almost did the sensible thing and bought an Archer.  The Mooney requires a bit of specific instruction but is certainly not hard to fly, and will put a grin on your face in a way your Piper never could. Only pros.  No cons. You will never look back.  

[Supercop0184]

Tim yes yes yes call me id love to

Go up with you anytime! Call me.

I want to say that this board has already been more helpful and friendly than the piper board ANY DAY!!

Paul took me up yesterday!!! That grin that DXB was talking about, inexperienced in Paul's mooney. Hard to take off in the Cherokee after flying in that mooney. There is something to be said to be able to climb out at 110 mph at 1000 FPM. Awesome!!! Thank you Paul for your hospitality. My friends survived. Evidently they had free beer at our hotel bar from 1730-1930. Needless to say he was pretty toasted by the time we got there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Supercop0184]

Paul, wife works until 1500. Will you still be there? I'd love for her to check it out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk