Rough Price on a TSIO 360 IRAN

[Pritch]

Has anyone got a rough idea on how much it would cost to do an IRAN on a TSIO 360.  Looking a plane with 60 hrs in the last 7 yrs and think a good look inside would be a Great Idea.

Steve

" Where the Redwoods Meet the Pacific Ocean"

 

 

[Shadrach]

The very nature of an IRAN is that you can't know what it will cost until the "I" has been completed. Figure around $3000 to R&R the engine. Figure another $2000-3000 to split and reseal the case. Depending on who's doing the work you'll have $4-6k in it before you count parts. 

Edited January 26, 2016 by Shadrach

[aaronk25]

Agree with shadrach price.

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[jclemens]

I wouldn't recommend doing an "IRAN" on an engine like that.  Either accept it and fly it, or bite the bullet and overhaul it.  I would say from experience that your going to spend at least twice that before it's all said and done with zero added value.  Maybe a little peace of mind, but not much.  

[jrwilson]

For just a "look inside," would a boroscope work?  Would that show rust, corrosion, etc?  Would that plus a compression check and oil analysis tell anything? 

[carusoam]

Keep in mind that is a six cylinder Continental engine.  It does not suffer from the Lycoming cam issue.

Pulling a cylinder, you may get to see a portion of the cam and the interior of a cylinder.

 

Doing this can be a challenge for working with the owner.  Ask how he feels about it.

As a seller, that may be too much maintenance to take on without any value for the seller.

As a buyer, you may prove the engine to be in great shape.  Guess what happens to the negotiations.

typical PPI, includes checking the compressions of each cylinder.  A dental camera can get a good look down the cylinder wall.

Realistically a turbo Mooney engine is at the opposite end of first time plane ownership.  Find one that is being well used and maintained until you collect the specific experience.

thoughts of a PP,

-a-

 

[jclemens]

Borescope won't get you much more than the inside of the cylinders.  Oil analysis is only useful if there are several of them conducted over a long enough period to show a trend, one data point is relatively useless.  If one was really concerned, the most I would ever recommend is to pull one cylinder and take a look inside.  You still wont be able to see 100%, but you can get a pretty good idea what the stuff you can't see looks like based on the stuff you can.  I would only consider doing this if the engine appeared questionable.  Most of the time your best bet is to just run it.

[rbridges]

33 minutes ago, jclemens said:

Borescope won't get you much more than the inside of the cylinders.  Oil analysis is only useful if there are several of them conducted over a long enough period to show a trend, one data point is relatively useless.  If one was really concerned, the most I would ever recommend is to pull one cylinder and take a look inside.  You still wont be able to see 100%, but you can get a pretty good idea what the stuff you can't see looks like based on the stuff you can.  I would only consider doing this if the engine appeared questionable.  Most of the time your best bet is to just run it.

when you pull a single cylinder, is there a certain one you'd pick, or is one cylinder as representative as another?

[wpbarnar]

60 hrs in 7 years for a TSIO 360......., Being concerned about Internal corrosion on the engine is a good place to start but there are other areas to be concerned about.   The fuel injectection system contains a bunch of O rings or elastermer seals...The fuel pump rebuild for most TSIOs are typically twice as much compared to non T'd engines.   Don't know which variant of the TSIO you are looking at but there could be other expensive components that will suffer from low use and long calendar time.    

Factor all this in if you are making an offer to buy.

Bill

[N201MKTurbo]

I had that very thing done to a lycoming about 15 years ago. I R&R The engine. The engine shop tore it down and put it back together for $700. The engine was fresh out of overhaul but had been in storage for 15 years and a flood (above the water line). I bought the engine from the insurance company for $9000. The only parts used were gaskets. There was a little rust in the cylinders so he re-honed them. The rings were ok.

I sold my old engine with a cracked case for $4000. Less than $6000 for a 0 SMOH engine isn't too bad...

Edited January 26, 2016 by N201MKTurbo

[jetdriven]

You can pull the lifters and visual the cam on those. Bore scope to check for cylinder rust.

Continental cams may be better but the lifters pit and chunk out on them just the same,

[Pritch]

Thanks for all the insight, I wish that buying the second Mooney was as easy as it was when I bought my first one back in "89" and flew it for many wonderful years.  There are several here in CA that I am looking at, 2 with higher time engines but nicely equipped.  Which ever one I choose to go for will have a ppi/annual done by Lake Aero.  Resealed tanks are also on the list of must haves.

Steve

[Steve Dietrich]

You don't mention the hours on the motor .  Few TSIO 360s make it to TBO without a top OH 

 If the engine has not been topped but has more than 800 hours then it is not likely to make a lot of difference in the cost to TBO 

Lot depends on how the engine was cared for, the moisture and temps of storage

 

 

 

[Tony__L]

Can someone please explain what IRAN is? I have Googled it but cannot figure it out 

[Bryan]

Inspect, Repair As Necessary  (or some variation of that)

[Tony__L]

10 minutes ago, Bryan said:

Inspect, Repair As Necessary  (or some variation of that)

Thanks for the quick reply! 

[StevenL757]

On 1/25/2016 at 9:38 PM, jclemens said:

Borescope won't get you much more than the inside of the cylinders.  Oil analysis is only useful if there are several of them conducted over a long enough period to show a trend, one data point is relatively useless.  If one was really concerned, the most I would ever recommend is to pull one cylinder and take a look inside.  You still wont be able to see 100%, but you can get a pretty good idea what the stuff you can't see looks like based on the stuff you can.  I would only consider doing this if the engine appeared questionable.  Most of the time your best bet is to just run it.

I agree.  Run the hell out of it as safely able, and in parallel, be prepared to put $$ into a factory reman with a 0-time logbook (preference) when the time comes around.  Starts you off with a nice clean slate.  Hopefully, you have a nice chunk of time left with the existing engine before you're forced to commit to such an investment.

Steve

[Mark89114]

2 hours ago, Tony__L said:

Thanks for the quick reply! 

Just to continue the education a little bit.  An overhaul is a legal definition that a repair shop has to go through to technically overhaul something.  All of the details are beyond me but I know that propellers are a big one, involving grinding blades, mandatory part replacement, etc. again the legal side.  In the U.S. as private fliers we don't have to overhaul much of anything so we can save some money on the process of repairing something.  In other words if you send something in for overhaul it will cost a lot more than just a repair.  

[kortopates]

Just to continue the education a little bit.  An overhaul is a legal definition that a repair shop has to go through to technically overhaul something.  All of the details are beyond me but I know that propellers are a big one, involving grinding blades, mandatory part replacement, etc. again the legal side.  In the U.S. as private fliers we don't have to overhaul much of anything so we can save some money on the process of repairing something.  In other words if you send something in for overhaul it will cost a lot more than just a repair.  

All true, but also consider that since a repair doesn't reset TSMOH, it does nothing to increase resale value. Only a major overhaul does. Therefore putting significant repair $ into a high time engine makes little sense unless you plan to keep it forever and don't care about it's resale value.


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[jlunseth]

I had one done for 7-8,000 a few years ago, but that was an event, not an engine that had sat.  As everyone else has said, the cost depends on what needs to be fixed.