Yetti Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Maybe it is just my plane. But really these things are not that hard to land. Gusty winds, 18-25 from 330 runway 34. stall horn getting beeped on approach, Thought it would be a bear to get down. kept in a little more power, aimed for a little further down the runway. She just settled in nicely. nary a fit or bump. made the 2000 foot turn off. maybe I need to go rent a 172 and see what I am missing out on. Mission to go pick up mother in law to get a new car was scrubbed due to bouncy conditions up there. Edited January 9, 2016 by Yetti 4 Quote
gsengle Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 I think later Cherokees are silly easy to land, 172s kind of plunk down... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
flight2000 Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 It's not just your plane. If you pay attention to the numbers on base and final while making the necessary adjustments for the wind, every landing should be a non-issue. I've done numerous one wheel landings in strong cross winds coming across the runway at 70-80 degrees (Kansas is notorious for bad winds), which is kinda fun, but nerve racking at the same time. Cheers, Brian Quote
M20F Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 When it is low IMC, gusty, snowing, or otherwise awful I always make really nice landing's. When it is beautiful out, I tend to make lousy landings regardless of the plane unfortunately :-) 4 Quote
Shadrach Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 Significant headwinds in cooler weather typically make a pilot look better by reducing GS and thereby reducing the distance of any float. You can fly the approach at a higher airspeed with more control. Same gusty approach flown in August when it's 98df would be a different experience. That stall horn would be a lot more active and there would be bumps and thermals coming off the runway. Quote
StinkBug Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 I seem to do better in worse conditions as well. I think it's the fighting that gets me going and makes me work for it. When it's too nice out I get lazy. That said, I flew a 172 not too long ago and I could have taken a nap on short final. Talk about easy. Quote
Mooneymite Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 ... But really these things are not that hard to land.... Yetti, you're going to bust the "Mooney landing mystique"! Repeat after me: "Mooney's are incredibly hard to land well. Only superior human beings can own, maintain and land Mooneys." 3 Quote
peevee Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 Yetti, you're going to bust the "Mooney landing mystique"! Repeat after me: "Mooney's are incredibly hard to land well. Only superior human beings can own, maintain and land Mooneys." Be careful, donkaye might hear you 1 Quote
bradp Posted January 9, 2016 Report Posted January 9, 2016 I flew a 182 and a piper arrow before the Mooney. Mooney is far superior in a crosswind. I tend to find the upwind wing wants to lift a lot more in the high wing and there is more of a mushy tendency with a given control input at low speed in a piper with a Hershey bar wing. Even at my 4th and 5th landing in the Mooney (I think I did like 3 during transition training), I was into crosswinds (15-20) that I wouldn't have ever attempted in those other models because the plane is that much more capable (good rudder, low, laminar wing).** It's hard to perfect but not hard to land satisfactorily. For the uninitiated lurkers, the one caveat is that you can respect the numbers and land where you want or not respect the numbers and land where she wants- that's okay too. But if you don't respect the numbers and try to land where you want she'll bite you. ** My first trip in the M20J was FCH-LDS-EDC-MKL-AVL-LYH-N07-OWD. 4 Quote
Andy95W Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 For the uninitiated lurkers, the one caveat is that you can respect the numbers and land where you want or not respect the numbers and land where she wants- that's okay too. But if you don't respect the numbers and try to land where you want she'll bite you. Best description of airspeed control while landing a Mooney I've ever seen. 1 Quote
Yetti Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Posted January 10, 2016 It's not just your plane. If you pay attention to the numbers on base and final while making the necessary adjustments for the wind, every landing should be a non-issue. What are these numbers you talk about. I look at the number to see if I can deploy the gear (under carriage speed brakes) at threshold. Then just bring her in. I am one of those under 200 hour pilots your Instructor warned you about. 1 Quote
Bravoman Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 For whatever crazy reason I consistently grease the mooney on. For me much easier to grease on than our fixed gear Saratoga. The mooney feels like it's on rails on the approach and into the flair. Quote
rbridges Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 For whatever crazy reason I consistently grease the mooney on. For me much easier to grease on than our fixed gear Saratoga. The mooney feels like it's on rails on the approach and into the flair. I thought you were based at kryy. did you move to pdk? Quote
Bravoman Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 I thought you were based at kryy. did you move to pdk? Still have the hangar at RYY and that is where I keep the piper. Was on the wait list at PDK for 5 years and got one of the new west ramp hangars they built on what used to be Rwy 9/27, so that is where the mooney lives. The house is in east Cobb pretty much between both dromes so it works out, especially since I love all the great ethnic food up and down Buford hwy next to PDK! Your daughter still at Kennesaw or she graduate? regards, Frank Quote
Bob - S50 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 Just a theory of mine, but I'm guessing the reason windy landings are less of an issue than expected is the same reason the plane floats so well... the fact that it sets so close to the ground. My theory is that the answer is ground effect and boundary layer. Just like the flow of air over the wing, even on a windy day, there is little to no wind within a few inches of the ground (try laying down on the ground on a windy day and see if you feel the difference). As you get further from the ground you slowly get into the free flowing wind. I'm guessing that with the wing of our Mooney's within about 2 feet of the ground, the full force of the wind isn't felt while we float down the runway. The same 2 feet also accentuates ground effect, reducing the required angle of attack and induced drag, so the airplane will happily float forever. Disclaimer: Not a rocket scientist. 1 Quote
rbridges Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 Still have the hangar at RYY and that is where I keep the piper. Was on the wait list at PDK for 5 years and got one of the new west ramp hangars they built on what used to be Rwy 9/27, so that is where the mooney lives. The house is in east Cobb pretty much between both dromes so it works out, especially since I love all the great ethnic food up and down Buford hwy next to PDK! Your daughter still at Kennesaw or she graduate? regards, Frank good to hear you're still hanging out at KRYY. My daughter is in her 3rd year at Kennesaw (first year of the nursing program), so I'll still be shooting up there for a while yet. Quote
Mooneymite Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 ...... so I'll still be shooting up there for a while yet. Rob, since all our on-line coversations are monitored by the NSA, FBI, CIA, PD, etc.....Your comment may get you some unexpected visitors! Let us know where you are incarcerated so we can visit. 1 Quote
HRM Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 ...172s kind of plunk down... Landing Cessnas always remind me of this: Quote
steingar Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 Took an hour to learn to land the Cheroee. Took about 10 to learn to land the Mooney. The fist landings were anything but greasers. 1 Quote
Mooneymite Posted January 10, 2016 Report Posted January 10, 2016 Took an hour to learn to land the Cheroee. Took about 10 to learn to land the Mooney. The fist landings were anything but greasers. More evidence! Repeat after me: "Mooney's are incredibly hard to land well. Only superior human beings can own, maintain and land Mooneys." Quote
Yetti Posted January 11, 2016 Author Report Posted January 11, 2016 My transition training 60 hours ago in June was 5 landings and then a "don't crash it and take it around 2 more times" as he exited I got in trouble for cutting through the PAPI glideslope and landing early. I also got in trouble for landing a foot left centerline there was a cross wind that day. Navy fighter pilots seem to like the nose wheel on the centerline or so I learned. I kind of felt robbed as I was believing the mantra of Mooneys are hard to land. I learned to bounce it off the runway all on my own. :-) 1 Quote
carusoam Posted January 11, 2016 Report Posted January 11, 2016 Similar to landing a Mooney smoothly... The Bowling analogy... read this only if you have time for less than perfect analogies. Mooney logic drives a lot of my decisions in odd ways. 1) the objective is to send the bowling ball down the alley with proper speed and alignment. 2) release the ball at the surface with a smooth transition and it whizzes down the alley. 3) skip the training and not having the experience, there is a good chance the bowler will drive the ball into the ground resulting in a loud bang and a horrible bounce. 4) Improperly avoiding the horrible bounce, turns the next try into an extended flight of the ball, followed by that same loud thunk as before, but without the double dribble. 5) On the third try, I delivered the ball down the alley with Mooney like precision. During the one game, I earned a spare and a strike before my arm tired, capping my score in the mid 80s... 6) All I know about bowling, I learned in Mooney transition training. Too fast can lead to a bounce. Too slow can lead to a stall above the runway. Just right still needs to be aimed down the center. Putting spin on the ball is like handling a X-wind. That is going to take more than one game. Getting tired either physically or cognitively will cap your final score. Plan to come back another day! Yes this is my bowling experience from being at my wife's corporate holiday event. First time in a couple of decades. A 13 pound ball moving at 16 mph gave me the strike. An 11 pound ball moving at 18mph would go into the gutter before reaching the end of the alley. Instrumentation helps make proper decisions... There is a relationship between speed, weight and accuracy that will deliver the results you are looking for. Lining up and being able to see the target takes getting used to. Strong reflections off the floor, make it difficult to line things up. Imagine my smile delivering a smooth landing down the alley resulting in a strike! High fives all around. Best regards, -a- Quote
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