What's with the turbo prop ego's

[aviatoreb]

Erik -- I think what you are seeing is the difference between the definition of "rude" found in upstate New York and the definition found in New Jersey.

No!  I'm right and he's wrong!  So are you!  Now get outta here yer botherin me kid.

Hahah - sure enough I bet you are right.

As I said, this is more than anything aviation or turbo props but a difference of approach and as you said, perhaps a difference of culture.

[Mooneymite]

Peter, This goes well beyond anything aviation that we are disagreeing.  So lets put the aviation dimension aside.  Turbo props aside.

Timmy?

Calling little Timmy......

[aviatoreb]

Now that we are debating Buddhism, I would point out that here is a difference between controlling emotions, repressing emotions and choosing how one looks at a situation to experience the situation differently such that different emotions emerge naturally...

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I propose you me, Peter, Maurauder and the rest of the gang talk this over in person over a shared a pop. (I'll ask my dad if he minds adopting any more "kids" and being shared).

[aviatoreb]

Timmy?

Calling little Timmy......

Nooooooooooo!  I would rather look at pictures of fat chicks.

[Marauder]

Now that we are debating Buddhism, I would point out that here is a difference between controlling emotions, repressing emotions and choosing how one looks at a situation to experience the situation differently such that different emotions emerge naturally...

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Personally, I am waiting for the zombie apocalypse so I can take some of you rude zombie people out.

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[Marauder]

No!  I'm right and he's wrong!  So are you!  Now get outta here yer botherin me kid.

Hahah - sure enough I bet you are right.

As I said, this is more than anything aviation or turbo props but a difference of approach and as you said, perhaps a difference of culture.

Having moved around a bit, it does take you by surprise when you first encounter it.

Another funny story, moving into my dorm room during my freshman year in college (in western NY), I was introduced to my new roommate and his parents who were from Long Guyland. It was a hot summer day and I asked if he had found a pop machine in the building. He looked surprised and said "No!" very loudly. Later that evening he came to me and told me his parents were really upset. "The nerve of selling pot in vending machines!"

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[mpg]

I wonder if the OP keying his mike to say "mooney holding short at 24",,,

May have prompted the Turbo guy to key his mike to say "thanks Mooney, its all yours now,,  good day"...

Kinda like getting a space to enter slow traffic or to get across it.

I always give a big happy smiley face, wave of thank you,,,  It a thanks!

[FlyDave]

Maybe they had a clearance void time and really didn't want to get pushed back in the queue - that does suck. But even so, they should have announced "Nxxxxx taxying to runway 24"

[Yooper Rocketman]

I am beginning to regret starting this topic.  Really didn't want to start this much debate.  I mentored a young man from before he was 16 until he became an ATP, has taken the ATC program and passed his ATC exam.  He now flies a RJ for one of the regionals, just leaving his Med Flight job flying turboprops.  When I discussed the original posted situation with him, his comment was "wannabe jet pilots", and stated there were a clearly higher number of TP pilots doing "rude" practices than most other professional pilots. Just his opinion, based on how unhappy a lot of them seem to be, and seemed to match my observation over the last 20+ years as well.  Again............just an opinion.  There are plenty of good TP drivers, just like any other facet of our society.  I am just a bit more sensitive to the "perception" of turboprop pilots, as I will be one of them when I finish my project (hopefully flying by spring).

Erik, sorry for starting a thread that's created so much heat on you.  I owe you a beer (or glass of wine) if you ever stop the next time you fly close to me. 

As far as those not thinking it's rude. No problem with me.  Not everyone sees things the same.  I've met some great people on this forum and look forward to meeting you.

Maybe I should go work on a project and quit posting for another 2-3 month stretch. 

Tom

[bonal]

Always find it interesting which threads develop vs ones that don't. I always try to make flight safer for others that my actions may have an impact as for the departure debate I would not have given it a second thought in fact I likely would have asked the 12 if he was ready to go ahead and yielded the runway. When I was flying my 150 I had lost of times that people would take the right of way without asking goes with the territory. My home field is real slow and it's not unusual to have the preferred runway change 2 or 3 times during your taxi to what was the up wind.  What I have found here in norther CA is most pilots will give way and be accommodating to others. Unless your in a 150 that is. I wonder if those of you that fly all over the country find regional differences in courtesy 

i wonder if the example of the Mercedes cutting in would be thought differently if the car was an older Civic. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by bonal

[gsengle]

The rude pilots I've come across most often are the Cape Air pilots flying piston twins... I was on the ILS into PVC a few months back, it was maybe 900 overcast, and the cape air pilot was scud running VFR from BOS. I announced a number of times on CTAF how far out I was on the ILS, and I could see him on my traffic system and heard him make one call out a few miles from entering downwind. We were def a collision risk and I was IMC on the ILS as I asked him his position twice and was ignored. Then I slowed up as much as I could as I saw him turn base to final a half mile in front of me as I broke out. I would have gone missed but the traffic system made me feel ok. He was really hauling and touched down and cleared the runway without any acknowledgement or further self announce. On short final, annoyed, I made the call for him after he cleared the runway "cape air clear of the runway". I had half a mind to report him... His first call up was his last, and I know his radio was working - he had just barely cleared the BOS bravo, and was on ctaf for that one call. Now that's rude and dangerous...

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[PTK]

Prime example about not being able to controll one's emotions! 

 Chris and his fat chicks!! He just melts fantasizing about them!

[Danb]

The cape pilot was not rude, but is dangerous. He should have been reported before he kills an innocent person.

[gsengle]

Yeah I regret not following up. Rude and dangerous both. It isn't the first time I've seen Cape Air pilots cutting corners...

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[aviatoreb]

I am beginning to regret starting this topic.  Really didn't want to start this much debate.  I mentored a young man from before he was 16 until he became an ATP, has taken the ATC program and passed his ATC exam.  He now flies a RJ for one of the regionals, just leaving his Med Flight job flying turboprops.  When I discussed the original posted situation with him, his comment was "wannabe jet pilots", and stated there were a clearly higher number of TP pilots doing "rude" practices than most other professional pilots. Just his opinion, based on how unhappy a lot of them seem to be, and seemed to match my observation over the last 20+ years as well.  Again............just an opinion.  There are plenty of good TP drivers, just like any other facet of our society.  I am just a bit more sensitive to the "perception" of turboprop pilots, as I will be one of them when I finish my project (hopefully flying by spring).

Erik, sorry for starting a thread that's created so much heat on you.  I owe you a beer (or glass of wine) if you ever stop the next time you fly close to me. 

As far as those not thinking it's rude. No problem with me.  Not everyone sees things the same.  I've met some great people on this forum and look forward to meeting you.

Maybe I should go work on a project and quit posting for another 2-3 month stretch. 

Tom

:-)  Someday I'll take you up on that!

But wow - I'll buy you the drink - or three - if you will take me for a ride in that uber turbo prop.

[aviatoreb]

We have two cape air serving airports within ear shot of my home pattern.  I never had a problem with them.  I know several of the pilots.  They tell me that they have never had a crash with injurys - there was a slide-off the end of the runway on ice incident several years ago and that airplane was repaired (it was THE airplane featured in the tv show Wings and that airplane has a painted emblem on the sign singifying that - I rode in that one several times).  They also have a surprisingly consistent on time record of 97% I'm told - surprising when you consider the all weather summer and winter they are flying in a small twin piston Cessna 402 at low altitudes (<=10500 I think it was by policy with paying customers on board).

[MyNameIsNobody]

General comment about the state of American culture. There is too much righteous indignation, road rage, and chip on shoulder mentality generally. It's not good for any of us, and that's the vibe I'm getting here. Yes I've seen pilots in every type of airplane do rude stuff. This story doesn't seem very bad at all. That's my opinion. I bet a large percentage of taxi movements especially at small quiet rural airports with only one or two taxiways that don't intersect don't get announced. Yes it would have been nice if they announced their taxi, but you could see them and they knew you could see them. They announced and departed. I still haven't heard if you were ready to go or completed run up but they called first and scooted. They didn't cut anyone off. I'd just prefer we reserve our indignation for things that are a little more than this is all...

 

 

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I respectfully disagree sir.  The problem with "the state of the American culture" as it relates to operation of motorized vehicles is: People do not follow the rules of the road.  The scenario described would definitely rate a shake of the head from me as well as my cathartic release of expletives from my pie-hole describing what I think of his actions.  I don't give a rats ass WHY he/she did what they did...I don't care if the had to take a dump, were late for a meeting etc. Poor driving and poor airmanship are what they are.  I  call a spade a spade.  Often the righteous indignation comes from the perp not the individual who was shat upon.   It is a self-centered me first, me now world. 

--I enjoyed holding the door for several senior citizens as I was leaving a restaurant this morning.  I didn't see another young woman coming behind me and closed the door.  I apologized and as our cars were side by side I waited for her to reverse/exit first.  One can be courteous or one can be an a-hole.  I go out of my way to try to NOT be "that guy or gal".  The world has plenty of them already...

[gsengle]

Yes, and I'd agree if there were any rules broken, however, in the case I was speaking about it doesn't appear that anything was done wrong, that anyone cut in line or anything.

ps never meant to imply this was the only thing wrong around here!

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[MyNameIsNobody]

Yes, and I'd agree if there were any rules broken, however, in the case I was speaking about it doesn't appear that anything was done wrong, that anyone cut in line or anything.

 

 

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Understand.  My reply was to the auto example and the "state of the American culture".  If more lived the Golden Rule we would be in a better place.  Here is an example: Just viewed a video of two motorcycles out riding.  They were wearing helmets.  Came upon a couple of slow moving vehicles.  It was double yellow.  Could clearly see ahead.  They should have waited, but chose to pass the two vehicles.  The front slow mover, an older gentleman in a Cadillac swerved left of center as bike was overtaking and the bike went down.  The rider was road rashed and passenger went to ICU.  The incident was videoed by the rear rider.  When he approached the driver he said "I don't care, they shouldn't pass on a double yellow"...Wow, Just wow.

Woman might lose her arm.  Really?  You chose to drive below speed limit, FINE.  You feel it is acceptable to swerve into a motorcycle because they chose to overtake you in a double yellow causing serious, perhaps debilitating injury and you say "I don't care"

There is no age limit, sex limit, social status limit to being "That Guy/Gal".

Edited October 19, 2015 by MyNameIsNobody

[gsengle]

This would indeed be a long thread if it turned into an "all that ails American culture" thread! In the mean time back to the positives, and the general high level of professionalism in GA, which I hope we continue to promote by discussing it...

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[Hank]

Understand.  My reply was to the auto example and the "state of the American culture".  If more lived the Golden Rule we would be in a better place.  Here is an example: Just viewed a video of two motorcycles out riding.  They were wearing helmets.  Came upon a couple of slow moving vehicles.  It was double yellow.  Could clearly see ahead.  They should have waited, but chose to pass the two vehicles.  The front slow mover, an older gentleman in a Cadillac swerved left of center as bike was overtaking and the bike went down.  The rider was road rashed and passenger went to ICU.  The incident was videoed by the rear rider.  When he approached the driver he said "I don't care, they shouldn't pass on a double yellow"...Wow, Just wow.

Woman might lose her arm.  Really?  You chose to drive below speed limit, FINE.  You feel it is acceptable to swerve into a motorcycle because they chose to overtake you in a double yellow causing serious, perhaps debilitating injury and you say "I don't care"

There is no age limit, sex limit, social status limit to being "That Guy/Gal".

You mean this guy? http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/10/20/driver-arrested-after-car-veers-into-motorcycle-hurting-2/?intcmp=hpff  I can't watch the video here at work, but it sounds like him. At least he's being charged, two offenses, -20 years each. Good thing! A$$ wipe!!

[aviatoreb]

You mean this guy? http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/10/20/driver-arrested-after-car-veers-into-motorcycle-hurting-2/?intcmp=hpff  I can't watch the video here at work, but it sounds like him. At least he's being charged, two offenses, -20 years each. Good thing! A$$ wipe!!

That's more than impolite or rude.  That is road rage to a criminal level. I bet he gets to spend his retirement years behind bars.  Not only did he do an ugly crime, his proclamations that he doesn't care, sure won't help when it comes to sentencing.

[peevee]

another forum mentioned a lancair turbine for sale for "about" 450k

Sure seems like a lot of performance for way more than I can afford, but still reasonable.

[PTK]

That's more than impolite or rude.  That is road rage to a criminal level. I bet he gets to spend his retirement years behind bars.  Not only did he do an ugly crime, his proclamations that he doesn't care, sure won't help when it comes to sentencing.

Both, the motorcyclist and the car driver are total idiots and operated their respective vehicles illegally.

The motorcyclist does not belong in the left oncoming traffic lane due to the no passing double yellow line, and neither does the car driver.

The motorcyclist doesn't even belong on the road at all because he had no driver's license.

I do see the car driver walking because he will come up with an excuse. He already has saying he got stung by an insect.

The motorcyclist has no excuse whatsoever. None. Not that he deserved what he got by any means but his illegal actions almost got him and his pax killed.

I feel most horrible for the girl pax on the bike. Totally innocent and most hurt.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by PTK

[bonal]

What the guy on the bike did was stupid no doubt what the guy in the car did was criminal and he's lucky the biker was not wearing colors or he'd be in the ICU as well. As a life long rider I hope that driver rots in jail. Which brings us to the innocent passenger and our flying. We as pilots have a huge responsibility to our passengers and the public they trust us not to be stupid. Rudeness and stupidity are close cousins always take a moment and think about if the shoe were on the other foot.