Recent Loreto, Mexico, Experience

[RobinHou]

We are flying to Loreto this weekend. I have done my home work and am ready to file or already filed my DVFR flight plans, both U.S. and Mexico eAPIS, and am comfortable about the required procedure for crossing the border and dealing with customs. However, I found no information online about FBO service, overnight parking and fees. 

If you have been to Loreto, Mexico, recently, can you share your experience? I am looking for fuel and overnight parking only. What are my options, and is there a high price FBO that I should avoid?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[philiplane]

Bandits are operating on the peninsula so be very careful. You need cash to pay your fees but that also makes you a target. If the airport offers a handling service, use it. It may give you some protection. If you refuse a handler, you will certainly be a target for gas theft, kidnapping or robbery. 

[RobertGary1]

Understand that while your regular insurance policy almost certainly includes coverage in Mexico it does not include legal insurance. To have an attorney represent you you need a Mexican add-on. This is what the Mexico flyers people sell, it doesn't cover the airplane and is only secondary liability but it does provide an attorney.

 

-Robert

[kmyfm20s]

Bandits are operating on the peninsula so be very careful. You need cash to pay your fees but that also makes you a target. If the airport offers a handling service, use it. It may give you some protection. If you refuse a handler, you will certainly be a target for gas theft, kidnapping or robbery.

On that note, go have a good time!!

[Guest]

You could go north where it's still summer and your US dollar goes a long way with current exchange rates and no banditos in sight.

Clarence

[kmyfm20s]

Loreto on the Baja penisula is one of my favorite towns. I haven't flown into Mexico in a few years but Loreto is one of nicer and safer airports. I am personally not scared to fly there. I have travel there recently on a few road trips and have had zero problems with bandits ect. Look up the Baja Bush Pilots web site, join and you can get current reports. Great site to get your insurance. Common sense goes a long way down there but it is a great town.

[carusoam]

There is a recent thread by a Mooney pilot traveling to Mexico. He had some similar questions....

Try this... http://mooneyspace.com/topic/14869-mexico-flight-plan-question/page-2?hl=mexico

Paul mentions using Loreto in this thread,

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/6020-cancun-area-direct-over-the-gulf/page-2?hl=%2Bloreto+%2Bmexico#entry78394

Best regards,

-a-

[OR75]

Nice safe airport and great small town with plenty to do, even though the whale watching season is passed

About $25 per day for parking

About $25 for filing the flight plan .

The multy entry for the plane is around $130

The departure tax is about $25 per passenger

About $25 for a taxi to get to town

Gas is not cheap but not that expensive either at about $6 a gallon . You can pay in pesos or us$ or with a card .

It is expensive when compared to regular gasoline for cars .

[ryoder]

Nice safe airport and great small town with plenty to do, even though the whale watching season is passed

About $25 per day for parking

About $25 for filing the flight plan .

The multy entry for the plane is around $130

The departure tax is about $25 per passenger

About $25 for a taxi to get to town

Gas is not cheap but not that expensive either at about $6 a gallon . You can pay in pesos or us$ or with a card .

It is expensive when compared to regular gasoline for cars .

Holy taxation without representation Batman!

[NotarPilot]

Holy taxation without representation Batman!

And for those exact reasons, I will probably never fly my plane to Mexico. Are you listening Mexico? You're doing it wrong.

[1964-M20E]

And for those exact reasons, I will probably never fly my plane to Mexico. Are you listening Mexico? You're doing it wrong.

Yes I'd like to go there some day in my plane but you are right.

 

Mexico should be trying to encourage legit non smuggling GA to fly down there and get more tourist doollars.

[RobertGary1]

That is a massive change from a couple years ago. 1) Mexico had gotten rid of the flight plan fee year ago in favor of a single flat fee on entry or annually(multi-entry). 2) I've never heard of or paid a departure tax. 3) i can't remember what I've paid for parking but never that much at Loretto 4) I suppose a tax driver will take your $25 from the rich American. It's all negotiable and if you're throwing money they'll catch it.

Either these fees have gone up enormously in a coupe of years or they're quoted from the 90's before the big push to get flying tourist in Mexico.

-Robert

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Either these fees have gone up enormously in a coupe of years or they're quoted from the 90's before the big push to get flying tourist in Mexico.

 

Fees have skyrocketed in the past couple of years. Mexico has apparently lost its taste for GA. I used to fly to Cabo every year, sometimes twice a year. No mas. It's become a big ripoff.

[RobertGary1]

Fees have skyrocketed in the past couple of years. Mexico has apparently lost its taste for GA. I used to fly to Cabo every year, sometimes twice a year. No mas. It's become a big ripoff.

 

That is sad. Flying in Mexico is one of the most amazing experiences a person can have. Flying low over a lagoon and seeing straight through the crystal clear water. Buzzing main street of a small town means "I would like a taxi at the airport please" vs "Call the FBI, the TSA, and DHS, this guy's a national threat" in the US. So much freedom and basic flying skills (I've landed my Mooney many times on the short beach at Alphy's). Its as close to the wonder and joy you can get today that those flying in the 1920's and 30's likely experienced.

I always found the gov't officials in Mexico so much nicer than in the US. You really have to prep yourself when you return. In Mexico I've had customs folks give me a ride to the 7-11 for snacks, invite me over for dinner, etc. You see them walking around in town and they come by and say hello. When you get back to the US and meet your US Customs Officer you follow the strict script of "Yes, mama, no sir's", and they're usually upset they had to drive out from the border crossing to meet you.

Any idea of what has changed? Has the BBP been less active? I know that Jack had to sell his plane a few years ago, he felt he was too old for such a complex airplane.

 

-Robert

[Oscar Avalle]

Nice safe airport and great small town with plenty to do, even though the whale watching season is passed

About $25 per day for parking

About $25 for filing the flight plan .

The multy entry for the plane is around $130

The departure tax is about $25 per passenger

About $25 for a taxi to get to town

Gas is not cheap but not that expensive either at about $6 a gallon . You can pay in pesos or us$ or with a card .

It is expensive when compared to regular gasoline for cars .

Pay always in pesos it is MUCH cheape due to the exchange rate. 

[kortopates]

I fly down to Mexico every winter, at least to visit the Whales in Baja which I consider a bucket list trip. This winter I visited all three lagoons to enjoy the whales over a couple trips and used Loreto as a base for two of them. This isn't really the time of year to enjoy Baha because of the extreme heat - but I will say its a popular time of year for Europeans.

 

There is no FBO operation in Loreto on the field. Its all government or DGAC controlled fees and not expensive or anything to be concerned with.

 

BTW, Regarding having done all your homework - their is no such thing as DVFR flight plan for a couple years now. Only ICAO flight plans.  

 

Nice safe airport and great small town with plenty to do, even though the whale watching season is passed
About $25 per day for parking
About $25 for filing the flight plan .
The multy entry for the plane is around $130
The departure tax is about $25 per passenger
About $25 for a taxi to get to town
Gas is not cheap but not that expensive either at about $6 a gallon . You can pay in pesos or us$ or with a card .
It is expensive when compared to regular gasoline for cars .

Fee's aren't quite that bad . Parking for a Mooney is $15/day and the landing fee is $10/landing - that is all you will pay besides the multi permit which you will have to pay more upon first entry into Mexico for the calendar year. Based on the current value of the Peso, you pay closer to just $100. It actually went down this year because the Peso went down in value, but 2 years ago the Multi fee went up substantially from what it was (now ~1400 pesos).

 

The departure tax OR75 mentions is actually the visa customs fee that they now collect on exit rather than entry. But the savvy pilot will check the crew box on the customs form at entry rather than the tourista box and not pay the fee - (that even works for two pilots if you have a licensed co-pilot go with you). (no official will tell you that, but its a bonus for the savy pilot that really does his/her homework.) He has the taxi cost about right - unfortunately it is a bit of taxi ride from the airport to town. There is no fee for filing a flight plan as Robert pointed out and they no longer close flight plans on arrival which is nice - you park and leave on domestic flights.

 

For gas, always paying in Pesos,  I paid an average of $4.20/gal in Loreto and $4.87 in San Felipe this past winter and that included the $11 wing tax fee you pay with any gas purchase. I've always found gas cheaper in Mexico and its is essentially the same fee at all airports served by the same government ASA fuel provider. The exceptions are privately owned airports like San Felipe and Cabo that have to pay extra to truck their fuel in.

 

 

Holy taxation without representation Batman!

 

 

 

And for those exact reasons, I will probably never fly my plane to Mexico. Are you listening Mexico? You're doing it wrong.

 

What do you think your paying with every gas of gasoline you buy here in the states? Especially in CA where we refine it, we pay a fortune for car gas for the same reasons - half or more of the cost is government taxes. At least for avgas the taxes are going to pay for the FAA.  Well in Mexico rather than collect all those fees in taxes on fuel they charge us, instead they charge fees for services rendered. As a result we enjoy cheaper gas prices in Mexico. Its just  a different method and not at all more expensive than flying in the US. I've found it to be cheaper overall if we don't include the annual multi-entry permit fee and the customs fee  for pax - to me that really the extra fees we're paying that we would not be paying to fly within the US. Well that is the price of adventure.​

 

 

Pay always in pesos it is MUCH cheape due to the exchange rate. 

 

Oscar is exactly right. Show up only with US dollars and you won't get a very favorable exchange rate for them because you are paying a convenience fee to exchange them. Same for the credit card usage - you'll pay an extra ~3% fee. Some airports, not all, will take a credit card for fuel (Loreto will, while San Felipe won't) - but usually just for gas and never for DGAC fees (e.g., parking, landing). The exception is the multi-permit, at many airport now they will only take a credit card for the multi fee in an effort to minimize corruption so that they don't have to handle the cash and that way Mexico City gets the funds directly.

 

As to the many comments about being robbed, kidnapped etc flying down there, recognize those are almost always from the same people that also say they would never go down. So they're just repeating the same stories we've all hear. I am not denying there is crime down their, stolen planes from time to time and even kidnapping etc. But that all happens on this side of the border too - just avoid the obvious hot spots like Tijuana and Sierra Juarez and since they're not tourist destinations anyway. I've travelled in over two-thirds of Mexico states and into Central America and never had a problem, and never been ripped off. Oh I sure hear the stories all right, but 9 out of 10 times I am sorry to say its the American that is ignorant of the rules that believes he may have been ripped off when he wasn't or didn't do his homework and broke lots of rules entering the country. In truth, Mexico is far more lenient with ignorant pilots than our own government; especially our CBP. Occasionally pilots have been miss-charges but it is rare.

Mexico has a lot to offer those seeking a flying adventure and is nothing like flying in the US. But so many people have their mind made up Mexico is not for them - and that's ok. I've enjoyed my time down there as there are some very unique experiences awaiting those with the interest. Anyway, just the opinion of frequent flyer to Mexico, because after all, that's why I purchased my Mooney - too travel!!

[Bravoman]

I love Mexico and Canada, and have spent lots of time in both places. Never flown my plane to either, though but would love to do so some day. I have become so accustomed to having a gun with me at all times that I feel naked without one and would certainly feel that way in Mexico. If I went to Mexico now I don't believe I would ever go without being armed, especially while traveling in the countryside. I would rather deal with the legal consequences of having a firearm if they have an issue with that than not have it if I need it.

[cliffy]

Bravoman, please do not even think of bringing a firearm to Mexico without proper permits. If they find it (and they most likely will) you will do 20 plus years in a Mexican prison. It is  a BIG deal down there.

 

To the OP you'll have a good time with normal attention to your surroundings. I grew up in Los Angeles and there are places there that I won't drive through in the daytime. Spent several weeks down in Baja last year and had ZERO, zilch, nada problems. 

You wouldn't walk down a dark alley at night in NYC then don't walk down one in Baja. 

 

I do put a big motorcycle cable lock on my prop at every overnight stop.

 

Overall just common sense and things will go fine. You'll find some great restaurants in Loreto.  The dorado might be running now also so go fishing. 

[RobertGary1]

I'm not sure a Mooney has ever been stolen in Mexico. The thieves consider them pretty useless airplanes. Now a 206 is a different story.

 

-Robert

[chrisk]

I love Mexico and Canada, and have spent lots of time in both places. Never flown my plane to either, though but would love to do so some day. I have become so accustomed to having a gun with me at all times that I feel naked without one and would certainly feel that way in Mexico. If I went to Mexico now I don't believe I would ever go without being armed, especially while traveling in the countryside. I would rather deal with the legal consequences of having a firearm if they have an issue with that than not have it if I need it.

 

http://tijuana.usconsulate.gov/tijuana/warning.html

Don't bring a gun or ammo, you will go to jail.  Don't carry a knife, not even a pocket knife, you will go to jail.

[Bravoman]

Classic example of the need for the 2nd Amendment here. All the bad guys have guns and we law abiding folks are left naked and at their mercy. I do appreciate the heads up on taking weapons into Mexico.

[RobertGary1]

I don't want to get political but I honestly would not carry a gun around commonly in California. There is such a patchwork of various laws you'll be subject to in each jurisdiction you land in. You can do the research on mag sizes, etc each place you go but you want to be sure you don't miss something. And open carry is illegal here now and consealed requires a local permit (out of state permits are not honored). And even a minor firearms conviction is a serious thing on your record.

Not trying to get political but you do have to be careful of various local laws.

-Robert

[Cyril Gibb]

 I have become so accustomed to having a gun with me at all times that I feel naked without one ...

I would hate to live my life feeling that need.

That's after living and working throughout Europe and north/central/south America.

It must be awful to be constantly looking over your shoulder.

[rbridges]

I would hate to live my life feeling that need.

That's after living and working throughout Europe and north/central/south America.

It must be awful to be constantly looking over your shoulder.

 

I see both sides, but I believe in being prepared.  I bought a pistol for my daughter who goes to school in north Atlanta, and I told her to take it with her when she goes out at night and when she travels home.  I hope she never needs to brandish it, but I feel better knowing she has it.  

 

Anyway, back to the thread topic.

[Bravoman]

I would hate to live my life feeling that need.

That's after living and working throughout Europe and north/central/south America.

It must be awful to be constantly looking over your shoulder.

You are fooling yourself if you don't feel that need, even in Canada. Better to have it an not need it than need it and not have it. I am very proficient with a firearm as I have shot and hunted all my life and shot pistols competively in college. I truly hope I never have to use a weapon in defense, but I will never make the mistake of not having one with me at all times.