StevenL757 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 A new install of TKS will be well north of $40k and you can't get FIKI on the single battery/alternator planes I believe. Best to buy it already installed. Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk Agree. Try $55 - $60k. Spoke with them yesterday about fixing one of my windshield pumps, and we got to talking about new install costs for a full system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Kevin, this is a very good write-up, I have to admit that at the beginnig, with my Rocket, I was either descending too late, too fast or got to my patern altitude too fast and had to use my speed brakes alot..... this amazing plane takes much more planning than less efficient ones to slow down. I'm not IFR yet, but doing it and hopefully will be within 2 or 3 months max. I now calculate my descent rate while in cruise and determine how many NM before destination I need to start my descent, then work backwords to start reducing power from the normal 31 MP that I cruise in to 25, I do that at the rate of 1 MP per 2 minutes, just to be easier on the engine for the temp changes, even though Rocket says 1 MP per minute, if you plan in advance, why not be baby the engine... It seems work well, my descent are easier now going to 25 MP over 22 RPM and my speed stays within the green arc, near yellow but still within the green... Bill, the Rocket is alot of plane, so make sure to get good transition training depending on your level of experience and as you said, MooneySpace is amazing source to seek good advice on everything... Houman, on the descent calculations: A great instructor taught me to never think in miles, only minutes. That way, if you're flying a Cub or a 737, you can't get behind the airplane. Thirty minutes from destination might be 200 miles out or 50 miles out, but a minute always lasts sixty seconds. Start your descent 1x, or 2x your altitude, in minutes, prior to your destination (depending on if you want to descend at 1,000 FPM, or 500 FPM). At 20,000 feet, I begin reducing power 22 minutes out, push the nose over at 20 minutes out, and establish 1,000 FPM. Easy math! (don't forget to account for airport elevation!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Kevin, Are you at or near red line descending at 1000fpm? I use a more VFR casual 400fpm... Just Wondering, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Houman, on the descent calculations: A great instructor taught me to never think in miles, only minutes. That way, if you're flying a Cub or a 737, you can't get behind the airplane. Thirty minutes from destination might be 200 miles out or 50 miles out, but a minute always lasts sixty seconds. Start your descent 1x, or 2x your altitude, in minutes, prior to your destination (depending on if you want to descend at 1,000 FPM, or 500 FPM). At 20,000 feet, I begin reducing power 22 minutes out, push the nose over at 20 minutes out, and establish 1,000 FPM. Easy math! (don't forget to account for airport elevation!) It's what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houman Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I usually calculate for 500 FPM descent. I use my nice sportys E6B calculator on my IPAD during cruise, it asks me what altitude I am, what altitude I want to descend to ( usually a bit higher than pattern altitude or approche altitude depending on what approch I'm trying to shoot )... then I count how many miles before there I need to start descending to have that 500 fpm. I have tried the 1000 fpm, but my temps either get too cold or I get too much into the yellow arc for my comfort. I agree a minute is always 60 seconds, but if I go by what my GTN 650 says as for ETA, it dos'nt work, since as I gain speed, my eta reduces faster than normal time... I usually start my power reduction a good 5 to 7 minutes before starting descent. that gives me time to reduce at least 2 or 3 MP from 31 MP before starting to descend, so keeps my speed in control... I guess there are many ways of doing, I have tried this now for more than 75h on this plane, it may be too conservative and it might take me longer to get to my destination, but it is stable and really easy on the engine according to an instructor that taught me this... specially if you are running 2200 RPM on the descent. I'm open to trying different ways, as long as it is easier on my engine and for me to plan !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Houman, your 650 has a vertical descent calculator, no need for the E6B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Do you really need any assistance multiplying the altitude difference by 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houman Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Houman, your 650 has a vertical descent calculator, no need for the E6B I know but have never used it. Since I have my many ipad on the yoke, with my friendly Foreflight and Startus and E6B always , it is was I use to calculate my true air speed, rate of descend and other stuff, usually nothing much to do in cruise beside looking outside, looking at my EDM and 650 and IPAD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I used my portable WAAS based G196 specifically set up for the task to calculate, track and alarm the TOD... Set it for 400fpm, it gives a horizontal bar like an ILS. If descending too fast the horizontal bar dissapears off the top. If not descending fast enough the guide dissapears off the bottom. Quirky engineering precision. Always good to maintain the math skills though. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Long descents not always an option out west but when in the valley I just get my ETA off the Garmin and figure out how many feet I need to lose and do the math in my head for the best rate. Like someone said above I never think in distance but in time which is consistent planning your cruise altitude in advance and your desired pattern alt knowing your preferred rate of descent you can plan in advance wind up an old alarm clock and take a nap time. assuming you were good on your winds aloft should be good to go down. I love descents in smooth air get that needle way up in the yellow and see if I can make my GS go over 200 knots course then that screws up my ETA and I need to re think my rate of descent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Long descents not always an option out west but when in the valley I just get my ETA off the Garmin and figure out how many feet I need to lose and do the math in my head for the best rate. Like someone said above I never think in distance but in time which is consistent planning your cruise altitude in advance and your desired pattern alt knowing your preferred rate of descent you can plan in advance wind up an old alarm clock and take a nap time. assuming you were good on your winds aloft should be good to go down. I love descents in smooth air get that needle way up in the yellow and see if I can make my GS go over 200 knots course then that screws up my ETA and I need to re think my rate of descent I hear you on long descents are not always being possible. On my last trip to Montrose Co, ATC had me at 13,000 until I was 12 miles from the airport, which is at 6000 ft. There was good reason for this since there is a mountain in the way. But I had to lose 7000 feet in 12 miles... 5 or 6 minutes. I slowed down, dropped the gear, deployed the speed breaks, kept some power in to keep the engine warm, and descended at 120 kts. Flightaware shows the rate was around 1500 to 1600 fpm. --I don't like descents like this, but sometimes it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Kevin, Are you at or near red line descending at 1000fpm? I use a more VFR casual 400fpm... Just Wondering, -a- I can't speak for Kevin, but 1000FPM gives me about 165KIAS indicated IIRC. Your leisurely descent rate is better for passenger sinuses! I had a 9 year old up for his first flight ever about a moth ago. I took he and his father above a broken layer so that he could experience looking down on clouds. During the 1000fpm descent from 9K he started whining through about 5K that his head hurt around his eyebrow. I leveled and tried to help him clear his ears. No dice! He was upset enough that I landed at an airport 22NM away just to get him on the ground. By the time we turned base he was fine...as if nothing had happened. I landed anyway. I have no idea how severe his pain was nor do I know if he predisposed to overreacting. What I do know is that having a passenger in pain can be very distracting, a crying child is even worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronk25 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 500fpm with the wife on board or just short of Vne if solo...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 I can't speak for Kevin, but 1000FPM gives me about 165KIAS indicated IIRC. Your leisurely descent rate is better for passenger sinuses! I had a 9 year old up for his first flight ever about a moth ago. I took he and his father above a broken layer so that he could experience looking down on clouds. During the 1000fpm descent from 9K he started whining through about 5K that his head hurt around his eyebrow. I leveled and tried to help him clear his ears. No dice! He was upset enough that I landed at an airport 22NM away just to get him on the ground. By the time we turned base he was fine...as if nothing had happened. I landed anyway. I have no idea how severe his pain was nor do I know if he predisposed to overreacting. What I do know is that having a passenger in pain can be very distracting, a crying child is even worse! Nothing worse than being in the pattern to land and you didn't know that you have sinus issues. It's like a knife to the back of your eye. I don't think I have ever felt such awful pain in my life. And there's no "pause" button when flying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I start my descent near the top of the green. I set my power according to how fast (FPM) I want to come down. Guys, we are doing the industry a disservice when we maintain this notion that anything with a propeller is hard to slow down. If ATC is keeping you up high close to your destination, keep reducing power until you are cruising below gear speed. & I stay on the ground when I can't clear my sinuses. That stuff can kill ya! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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