Defective Garmin GTN Database Cards

[Mooney_Allegro]

My Database cards for the GTN 650/750 keep going bad, meaning that my computers don't recognize them when I install them in the card reader.  3 started failing after 2 years.  Four cards came with the units, 2 each.  I've tried different card readers, and different computers, with the same outcome.  I've already had 1 card replaced under warranty, now 2 additional cards won't read anymore.  Garmin charges $150/card for the replacement, so it can get pricey.  Garmin doesn't have any answers as to why the cards keep going bad.  I never place my cell phone near the database cards. 

 

Does anyone else have these issues?  If not, could there be some magical force that makes the cards inop? 

[carusoam]

We have a Garmin contact on MS, don't we?

Might be a good question to point towards Trek Lawler...

http://mooneyspace.com/user/12081-treklawler/

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

I'm going on 3 years with the same cards for my 650. One thing I am careful about is making sure they are completely ejected before I remove them.

Any chance you have an anti-virus interference? Is the same anti-virus stuff running on the different computers?

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[flyboy0681]

Four years and both are still going strong.

[donkaye]

My Database cards for the GTN 650/750 keep going bad, meaning that my computers don't recognize them when I install them in the card reader.  3 started failing after 2 years.  Four cards came with the units, 2 each.  I've tried different card readers, and different computers, with the same outcome.  I've already had 1 card replaced under warranty, now 2 additional cards won't read anymore.  Garmin charges $150/card for the replacement, so it can get pricey.  Garmin doesn't have any answers as to why the cards keep going bad.  I never place my cell phone near the database cards. 

 

Does anyone else have these issues?  If not, could there be some magical force that makes the cards inop? 

 

If you have Garmin Charts on the 750 card and try to update them and are using System 5.13, it is a known problem that you will crash and burn the cards.  Garmin has a method for update the cards with the Charts.  Since I don't have Garmin Charts on my 750 I haven't been concerned about the problem.  BeechTalk has a number of threads on this topic and Trek Lawler from Garmin monitors the forums daily.

[Mooney_Allegro]

Marauder, my anti-virus programs are out of date, so I don't think that's interfering with the cards.  Normally if something interferes with the Norton Anti-Virus, I'll get a message.

[Mooney_Allegro]

Don Kaye, I don't have Garmin Charts, I have JeppView.  I just don't understand why 3 of the 4 cards are defective and are not recognized.

[ArtVandelay]

Is that only a problem with the 750?

[NotarPilot]

We have a GTN 650 and two G500s at work. I'm in charge of updating the SD cards for all 3 of those units and I can't get any of them to update. I've tried 2 different card readers and even tried uploading them using my own home computer with no luck. I plug the cards in and they seem to be invisible. Being we only fly VFR I haven't made it a priority but I have no problems updating our two GNS 530s.

These issues are why I think simple is better. I love my steam gauges and have no plans to upgrade from my 430Ws.

[Will W]

Is your plane left out on the ramp in NV in the summer time?  The parts inside the cards have a low melting, not low enough for just one summer but do they always fail in the summer time?  I just noticed your locations where you're based and I figured if you didn't have a hangar, it might cause these problems.  A way to check would be go to the "Temps" section in GTN Diagnostics Page ( Section 3.4.5 in the Maintenance Manual "http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01007-A1_7.pdf") and on that page you can find the minimum, maximum, and average board temperatures for the LED Board, Main Board, Display Interface Board, GPS/WAAS Board, and COM Board.  Please note that the temps will be lower in flight due to the avionics cooling fan being on normally so you'll want to see the max temps specifically which will obviously be on first start up on the ramp.

 

 

Let me know how this goes.

[Mooney_Allegro]

teejayevans, the problem with the reader not seeing the database cards is with both the 650 & 750.

 

dimondan, The plane is never left outside.  In NV, I have an insulated hangar, and in GA it's in the hangar.  The database cards are taken out and not left in the plane between flights.  The first failure was with the GTN 750's card back in February, so it was cold at that time.  I'll go into the diagnostics and check the temps.  One thing to note is that I've had my G600 since 2008, and NEVER had to replace a defective database card.  The issues are only on the GTN's. 

[Marauder]

teejayevans, the problem with the reader not seeing the database cards is with both the 650 & 750.

dimondan, The plane is never left outside. In NV, I have an insulated hangar, and in GA it's in the hangar. The database cards are taken out and not left in the plane between flights.

Could your last line be the issue? I only remove my cards when I do the cycle update. If you fly several times a week, you are removing the cards a lot more than I am and I suspect most people. Is there such a thing as a SD card expiration? Install it in the GTN X number of times and it thinks you need a new one?

Grasping at straws... I have never heard of counters being used, but maybe there is a correlation. Anyone else pull their cards in between flights?

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[ArtVandelay]

$150 a card? Yikes. Get some generic sdcards of the same size and clone the garmin cards, save yourself $140.

[ArtVandelay]

Grasping at straws... I have never heard of counters being used, but maybe there is a correlation. Anyone else pull their cards in between flights?

No, I pull it to update once a month or so, and SD cards should last 50,000 write cycles.

Did OP ever try to format the cards use them as generic SD cards?

In other words, was the card actually damaged or just its data got corrupted?

[flyboy0681]

No, I pull it to update once a month or so, and SD cards should last 50,000 write cycles.

Did OP ever try to format the cards use them as generic SD cards?

In other words, was the card actually damaged or just its data got corrupted?

 

Grasping at straws is correct. Garmin does not manufacture these cards, they contract with a major manufacturer to produce the commercially available cards that we use everyday but have them add a special checksum. I don't know about all of you, but I'm still using SD cards for my PC that I bought five years ago and pull it in and out of my PC's all day long.

[Marauder]

$150 a card? Yikes. Get some generic sdcards of the same size and clone the garmin cards, save yourself $140.

Have you tried this? I wish it would work. I tried it once but there is a hidden file that can't be copied and it is needed for either a Garmin or a Jepp subscription to work.

The same for my Jepp microSD for the Aspen. The only one I found that a generic card will work is the Aspen charts from Seattle Avionics.

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[wishboneash]

Have you tried this? I wish it would work. I tried it once but there is a hidden file that can't be copied and it is needed for either a Garmin or a Jepp subscription to work.

The same for my Jepp microSD for the Aspen. The only one I found that a generic card will work is the Aspen charts from Seattle Avionics.

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I had this work when I first got my GTN-650. I haven't tried it since. I also had failures programming my Garmin cards last year but that was due to the laptop that had some issues/configuration changes somewhere. I tried programming the cards on other computers and the cards worked properly again. I am now doing this on a Macbook Pro and no issues.

[KSMooniac]

There is a thread on Beechtalk where quite a few owners were able to successfully use generic SD cards in their GTN's.  Trek admonished them of course, but I can't say I blame them since the Garmin cards fail and they charge a ridiculous amount to replace them.

[ArtVandelay]

Have you tried this? I wish it would work. I tried it once but there is a hidden file that can't be copied and it is needed for either a Garmin or a Jepp subscription to work.

The same for my Jepp microSD for the Aspen. The only one I found that a generic card will work is the Aspen charts from Seattle Avionics.

You have to clone it or a bit by bit copy...if you have a Linux box I can tell you the command, I'm sure Windows,Mac have a way to do this, 3rd party tool. Search for keywords: clone, SD card, windows

[kortopates]

Reading through this thread I could not tell if the card is only not recognized by the reader on PC or both the GPS and the PC. Also I could tell what s/w were you were using on the PC but am assuming JSUM given the reference to JeppView. So if the GPS doesn't recognize the card too, then sorry its time for aa new card. But if the GPS recognizes the card, the issue is likely in the needing to re-install the card reader driver in JSUM and thus the technical support guys at Jeppesen should be able to get you going quickly.

 

Other than that, I can only offer the obvious to make they don't get dropped and to protect them from static electricity while handling and carrying them around while out of the aircraft.

[Mooney_Allegro]

Kortopates,

 

The defective cards are recognized in the aircraft, but not using multiple card readers & on multiple computers.  My 2 good cards for the GTN's are recognized by my card readers/computers.  My G600 cards never had an issue & they are 6-7 years old.  They are always recognized by the card reader/computers.  I'm using the Jeppesen JSUM site for the updates (Pilot Pak).  I don't see a need to reinstall the card reader software, since everything updates fine on my other database cards.  Thanks for your troubleshooting help.

 

I'm told by my avionics installer that Garmin has a unique coding for their cards, and normal SD cards won't work, but obviously it's been done, as others suggested in earlier posts. 

[ArtVandelay]

I'm told by my avionics installer that Garmin has a unique coding for their cards, and normal SD cards won't work, but obviously it's been done, as others suggested in earlier posts.

I think that's the hidden file mention earlier, it's tied to the serial number of the box. As I said, just copying files over to a regular SD card won't work.