Mooney down in Norfolk

[Marauder]

http://wtkr.com/2015/03/04/multiple-agencies-respond-to-report-of-a-plane-crash-in-norfolk/

 

They said two are confirmed dead and they thought 4 people were on board?! Just listened to the broadcast, they said it could carry up to 4. Doubt he would have been able to fly full fuel and full seats from Florida.

[aviatoreb]

http://wtkr.com/2015/03/04/multiple-agencies-respond-to-report-of-a-plane-crash-in-norfolk/

 

They said two are confirmed dead and they thought 4 people were on board?! Just listened to the broadcast, they said it could carry up to 4. Doubt he would have been able to fly full fuel and full seats from Florida.

 

Were you thinking that the pilot respected weight and balance restrictions?  I am guessing he did not since he is breaking so many other rules and concepts of good decision making.

 

I think somewhere in the news discussions it was remarked that the pilot was interviewed and made remarks following the crash.

[140pilot]

Folks I am based at SFQ. N66BB is hangared here. The owner of the aircraft was not the pilot nor was he on the aircraft.

I do not know the pilot or the two others on board. They have all been declared dead.

[rbridges]

http://wtkr.com/2015/03/04/multiple-agencies-respond-to-report-of-a-plane-crash-in-norfolk/

 

They said two are confirmed dead and they thought 4 people were on board?! Just listened to the broadcast, they said it could carry up to 4. Doubt he would have been able to fly full fuel and full seats from Florida.

 

now it's saying 3 confired dead.

[Ftlausa]

If the instrument readings in the aircraft were correct, the pilot reported 105 kts IAS, but only 32 kts over the ground at 1600 ft, plus moderate turbulence.  There were 300 ft ceilings, and he reported gyro issues as well.  NOT a good situation!

[201er]

The best advice I can give to non-instrument rated pilots that think they are instrument capable: "just don't even try it!" The instrument training is about like getting your private all over again both in terms of hours and amount of new learning. Getting instrument rated is like going from no rating to a private pilot. That's a big jump so don't take it lightly. Without the knowledge you acquire during the instrument training, you just wouldn't be suitably equipped to know what you don't know.

 

All that said, since it is now believed that the pilot in question was not the non-instrument rated owner, do we know if the acting PIC was instrument rated?

[140pilot]

I live about 3 nn from ORF. We had some pretty high winds and rain last night and thick fog when I got home at 2 am.

I have heard the pilot is a local doctor who had borrowed the plane. While I know the owner of 6BB I didn't know the pilot. His initial approach was into SFQ then diverted to ORF.

[140pilot]

Ok I heard they released the pilots name. It was Dr Michael Buxton. I didn't know him so can't say what his ratings were.

Photos of scene

http://interactives.wavy.com/photomojo/gallery/18138/328499/norfolk-botanical-garden-plane-crash/norfolk-botanical-garden-plane-crash/

Local news link with best info

http://wavy.com/2015/03/04/communication-lost-with-small-plane-heading-to-orf/

[aviatoreb]

Folks I am based at SFQ. N66BB is hangared here. The owner of the aircraft was not the pilot nor was he on the aircraft.

I do not know the pilot or the two others on board. They have all been declared dead.

 

I am very sorry to hear that. 

[aviatoreb]

The best advice I can give to non-instrument rated pilots that think they are instrument capable: "just don't even try it!" The instrument training is about like getting your private all over again both in terms of hours and amount of new learning. Getting instrument rated is like going from no rating to a private pilot. That's a big jump so don't take it lightly. Without the knowledge you acquire during the instrument training, you just wouldn't be suitably equipped to know what you don't know.

 

All that said, since it is now believed that the pilot in question was not the non-instrument rated owner, do we know if the acting PIC was instrument rated?

 

I would say that the technical step is bigger from PPL to IFR than it is from zero to PPL. 

 

Besides all the new rules, the learning how to read and understand how weather unfolds, learning how to read charts and maps and lots more,  I was really impressed with the basic geometric visualization skills that must be developed.  Its called part of situational awareness the abilities to look at needles and guages and from that to build up a 3d model in your head of where you are in space and where you are supposed to be relative to the approach or what not, and to anticipate what's next - I'm a math professor and I should be a whiz at that right compared to "normal folk" but I will be the first to affirm that even this part was not easy for me.  I can only imagine how that goes for folks that never were used to imagining three dimensional configurations in their heads previously - it must be like learning a new language from scratch.

[aviatoreb]

"Are you getting pushed around by the wind; I'm showing you up and down and left and right..."

 

"6BB What's your fuel state" "I've got about an hour"

 

"6BB I'm showing you way left of course..." 

 

"Cancel approach clearance [to another pilot]"

 

"6BB you're way off the localizer"

 

"6BB you want to attempt this approach again?" "We'll take another swing at it"

 

The link is not working for me - how do I find it?

[neilpilot]

From news report"  Michael Buxton and two friends from Buffalo flew to Key West last week. They sailed on Buxton’s 32-foot sailboat called, “Bigger Dream.”The three flew out of Key West Tuesday and the last communication with family was at 11:47 p.m. while flying over Fort Myers Florida"

[flyboy0681]

Ok I heard they released the pilots name. It was Dr Michael Buxton. I didn't know him so can't say what his ratings were.

 

 

One reason never to jump to conclusions. The FAA Airmen Registry has a Michael Jay Bruxton from Virginia Beach listed who is instrument rated. There is also a Dr. Michael J. Bruxton practicing in Virginia Beach.

 

My thoughts are with the family.

[22 others]

I hope some of you will revise your jumps to conclusions.

 

Let me save some of you 30 minutes of misery listening to that radio. Here's a rough transcript.   I can't throw a lot of stones, and I hope we view this as an opportunity to glean all we can from his plight. 3 aircraft before him came in fine. Don't know if we can cast doubt on his judgment flying in those conditions. Based on the myriad of problems he faced, I know I'd give anything not to be in a similar situation. 

 

Rough transcript follows:

*******************************************************************************

 

previous landed aircraft from taxiway: Picked up the approach lights at 350 ft indicated

 

I'm showing you in right hand turn sir, turn left heading 020

 

020

 

6BB previous arrival reported airport in sight at 350 feet on final and uh moderate chop on final as well for 66BB

 

other aircraft: 350' indicated

 

6BB We got hammered on the way down into suffolk over

 

I believe it's the same here sir. And uh, check altitude, I'm showing you 300' high. Maintain 3000 as best you can.

 

Taxi instructions for other aircraft.

 

2:00 66BB just looking some other airports around here, ___ similar conditions 300 overcast. Newport news showing similar as well. It's roughly around 400 overcast at the surrounding airports.

 

Roger

 

66BB descend and maintain 2000

 

3000 for 2000

 

3:52 66BB is level 2000

 

4:00 Mooney 66BB roger descend and maintain one thousand six hundred

 

leaving 2000 for one thousand six hundred. Do you still want us on a heading of uh 20 degrees over.

 

4:11 Affirmative sir

 

6BB [unintelligible] localizer preferred by the 3 aircraft before you

 

[unintelligible] bottom layer uh, the needles are bouncing around

 

yeah that's a possibility

 

6:00 66BB turn right heading 140

 

140

 

7:05 Mooney 66BB you are four miles from LUFSY. Fly heading 2-0-0 maintain 1 thousand 6 hundred until established on the localizer. Once again two zero zero sixteen hundred until you're established on localizer

 

2 0 0 degrees 1 thousand 6 hundred until established

 

8:36 66BB just check your altitude sir. I'm showing a 400' climb Maintain 1 thousand 6 hundred as you can

 

9:49 What type of wind are folks showing there now?

 

On the ground sir showing 230 at 14 gusting to 18. I'm showing you doing 30 kts across the ground currently.

 

That's what we're seeing too

 

10:00 6BB change to my frequency 120.8

 

20.8

 

tower, Mooney 66BB with you

 

6BB roger sir. Wind is 230 13 gusting 18. Runway 23 you're cleared to land. Check your altitude. Maintain 1 thousand 600 I'm showing you to the south on the final sir. Turn right heading 260. Maintain 1600 until you're back on the localizer.

 

11:50 66B looks like you're establishing on the localizer. Are you seeing the same thing sir.

 

Roger we're on the localizer and we're at 1x00 feet. Glideslope is coming down to us

 

Sir the altitude to maintain is 1600 to the LUFSY intersection. So just maintain 1600 for now and then once you get to lufsy you can follow the glideslope down sir, for right now the proper height is 1600

 

12:30 66BB i've got the lights turned up to the maximum setting. When you come down. If they're too bright when you're coming down let me know I've got them at the maximum lumisity.

 

18:02 6BB i'm showing you south of the localizer sir. Make a right hand turn back to the localizer.

 

18:28 6BB I'm Showing you waaay left of course sir. Um. Are you able to, Are you going to be able to maintain on the localizer.

 

6B roger cancel this clearance climb and maintain 2000, 2000 for 66BB

 

Continue westbound sir you're way off the localizer

 

19:05 6BB do you want to attempt this approach again sir, or uh, what's your intentions

 

We'll take another swing at it

 

6BB roger

 

Can we turn outbound at this time over

 

6BB turn left heading 140 maintain 2000

 

left 140 maintain 2000

 

20:40 Mooney 66BB is level 2000 ft over

 

20:45 Roger fly heading 0-8-0

 

0-8-0

 

6BB what's your fuel state?

 

We've got about an hour uh 15 minutes over

 

Roger that

21:06 having trouble with your equipment sir, or are you just uh.. getting pushed around by the wind there on the localizer. Because you've been up and down and left and right a bit for the majority of the uh approach it seems like.

 

It's literally a washing machine as soon as we go through the cloud deck. The cloud decks at about1200 ft . Before that everything's very easy, but once we get to uh uh uh 1200 ft, it's a washing machine.

 

Is it easier with a different approach? Did you want to try a RNAV. Or did you want to stay with the localizer for now.

 

Loclaizer's way better

 

OK Roger that

 

What heading at this time over

 

N66BB turn left heading 0 5 0

 

Roger 0 5 0

 

22:42 66BB fly heading 0 2 0 I'm showing you about a 80 heading now 020 heading

 

020

 

6BB descend and maintain 1600

 

Roger 1 thousand uh 1 thousand 6 hundred.

 

6BB is actually experiencing moderate turbulence uh, [unintelligible] floating around the cabin on these approaches

 

66B Roger thank you. Fly heading 320 for 6BB

 

320 for 6BB

 

25:11 You're 3 miles from LUFSY, fly heading 260 maintain 1,600 until established on the localizer. Cleared ILS runway 23 approach.

 

Roger 2 6 0. We're experiencing a lot of precession withour uh gyro. Don't know if uh the turbulence uh, disrupted it.. Is it at all possible, radar vectors appreciated on the glideslope at least. It's a very very wild ride. over

 

I'll try to do the best I can to no Gyro it sir. Uh. Do you want no-gyro sir or do you want corrections as best as possible

 

We have some gyro it appears but we have to reset the uh gyro periodically. [unintelligible]. But yeah uh, [unintelligible] vectors.

 

Roger, you can expect that sir

 

27:12 About 105 kts we're showing 32 over

 

6BB roger sir. Make out a track for you sir, are you about to join the localizer now.

 

28:19 [unintelligible]

 

28:26 6B let me see what I can do here, you're going so slow I'm not getting much of a history or track. Hold on a second. Let me see if I can do a little more

 

Going to join the localizer now over

 

6B I'm showing about a 260 heading now sir. And uh you said you're going to make a turn to join

 

Roger

 

I'll uh keep a close eye and tell you if you're on it, tell you if you're right or left

 

29:18 6BB current weather is uh 00 0858z 220 at one niner. Gusting 23. visibility is 2 ½ mist, ceiling at 300 overcast. Temp is 08. Dewpoint 07. Altimeter is two niner niner zero. [unintelligible]

 

Altimeter is two niner niner two. We had it set higher over.

 

Tower has radio contact with “Rescue one”  Probably an emergency vehicle

 

End of recording.

 

 

****

Edit

POA linked to another recording that picks up where this one posted by Midlifeflyer ended. Includes 66BB's final approach.

 

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/korf/KORF-Mar-04-2015-0900Z.mp3

Edited March 5, 2015 by 22 others

[flyboy0681]

Based on the myriad of problems he faced, I know I'd give anything not to be in a similar situation. 

 

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

It's one thing to be flying an approach when it's smooth, but can be hell on earth when it's really rough.

[par]

I was looking at the forecast last night because I wanted to go out for a flight this morning. Needless to say, it did not look good at all and the decision was easy. I'm curious why he would take off knowing the wx he would eventually be dealing with? The saying about Bold and Old pilots comes to mind as I read over the transcript and listen to the comm.

[helitim]

Based on the transcribed communications, it sounds as if he had only the one type of navigation system onboard. This is the very reason I have steam gauges and multiple GPS's in the aircraft. Gyro precession would be a minor inconvenience. Would a GPS have made a difference for someone who made this many poor choices? Maybe not. It would for many pilots. Having an iPad w AHRS is part of my personal MEL as a backup.

[201er]

Thanks for the transcript! I wonder if it's possible to see the TAF the pilot would have been seeing prior to departure? Can one of you cyber-investigators give us that info? Maybe the airmets for that time as well? Are those sorts of archives available?

 

My worst fear is being in a situation substantially worse than forecast. If the guy left with the forecasts as bad as what it turned out to be, then we can agree it was a bad decision in the first place. But if the forecasts indicated otherwise, then it may be harder to say if you wouldn't have made the same go decision as well.

[flyboy0681]

My worst fear is being in a situation substantially worse than forecast. If the guy left with the forecasts as bad as what it turned out to be, then we can agree it was a bad decision in the first place. But if the forecasts indicated otherwise, then it may be harder to say if you wouldn't have made the same go decision as well.

 

Compounded by the fact that it would be a middle of the night flight. Assuming he didn't take a really good nap before departure, he would have been very tired at arrival time.

[FloridaMan]

Here are the TAFs and METARs. I have years of this data archived as a side project. 

"KORF 020100Z 0201/0224 14004KT P6SM BKN004 OVC020 TEMPO 0201/0203 3SM -DZ BR OVC010 FM020300 23008KT 3SM BR OVC004 FM020800 23008KT 6SM BR SCT006 OVC012 FM021500 35010KT P6SM SCT015 OVC030 FM021800 01"
"KORF 020520Z 0206/0306 24008KT 5SM BR OVC007 FM021300 23007KT P6SM SCT008 OVC015 FM021500 33010KT P6SM SCT015 OVC030 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM BKN050 FM022000 02007KT P6SM SCT250"
"KORF 020559Z 0206/0306 24008KT P6SM OVC007 FM021300 23007KT P6SM SCT008 OVC015 FM021500 33010KT P6SM SCT015 OVC030 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM BKN050 FM022000 02007KT P6SM SCT250"
"KORF 020810Z 0208/0306 22010KT P6SM OVC006 TEMPO 0208/0210 SCT006 FM021300 23007KT P6SM SCT008 OVC015 FM021500 33010KT P6SM SCT015 OVC030 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM BKN050 FM022000 02007KT P6SM SCT250"
"KORF 020940Z 0210/0306 23007KT 1SM BR OVC002 FM021000 23007KT 3/4SM BR OVC002 TEMPO 0210/0212 1/2SM FG FM021300 23007KT P6SM SCT008 OVC015 FM021500 33010KT P6SM SCT015 OVC030 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM "
"KORF 021105Z 0211/0306 23008KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC002 FM021400 23007KT P6SM SCT008 OVC015 FM021500 33010KT P6SM SCT015 OVC030 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM BKN050 FM022000 02007KT P6SM SCT250"
"KORF 021120Z 0212/0312 23008KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC002 FM021400 25007KT 4SM BR SCT008 OVC015 FM021500 32010KT P6SM SCT015 OVC030 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM BKN050 FM022000 02007KT P6SM SCT250"
"KORF 021149Z 0212/0312 24008KT 3SM BR OVC002 FM021400 25007KT 5SM BR SCT008 OVC015 FM021500 32010KT P6SM SCT015 OVC030 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM BKN050 FM022000 02007KT P6SM SCT250"
"KORF 021328Z 0213/0312 24008KT 5SM -RA BR SCT005 BKN060 OVC090 FM021500 32010KT P6SM SCT015 BKN040 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM BKN050 FM022000 02007KT P6SM SCT250"
"KORF 021510Z 0215/0312 34012G18KT P6SM BKN007 BKN060 OVC090 FM021600 36012KT P6SM SCT015 BKN040 FM021800 01012G20KT P6SM BKN050 FM022000 02007KT P6SM SCT250"
"KORF 021728Z 0218/0318 01013G20KT P6SM SCT050 BKN150 FM022300 03010KT P6SM SCT250 FM030800 05006KT P6SM BKN120 BKN200 FM031700 10006KT P6SM BKN050 OVC120"
"KORF 022156Z 0222/0318 03009KT P6SM SCT250 FM030800 05006KT P6SM SCT120 BKN200 FM031700 10006KT P6SM BKN050 OVC120"
"KORF 022339Z 0300/0324 05007KT P6SM SCT250 FM031400 06005KT P6SM BKN100 OVC200 FM031700 10006KT P6SM BKN050 OVC120 FM032200 18008KT 4SM -RA BR OVC040"
"KORF 030535Z 0306/0406 01007KT P6SM SCT250 FM031400 06005KT P6SM BKN100 OVC200 FM031700 10006KT P6SM BKN050 OVC120 FM040000 18008KT 4SM -RA BR OVC040 FM040300 20012KT 4SM -RA BR SCT009 OVC020"
"KORF 031140Z 0312/0412 05007KT P6SM SCT060 BKN250 FM031700 12006KT P6SM OVC050 FM032200 18008KT 4SM -RA SCT012 OVC040 FM040300 22012KT 4SM BR OVC005"
"KORF 031736Z 0318/0418 07008KT P6SM OVC045 FM032300 20012KT 5SM -SHRA BKN012 OVC030 FM040300 22012KT 4SM -SHRA BR OVC005 FM041500 24016G25KT P6SM VCSH BKN012 BKN025"
"KORF 032107Z 0321/0418 17005KT P6SM SCT030 OVC045 TEMPO 0321/0323 OVC030 FM032300 20012KT 5SM -RA BKN015 OVC030 FM040300 22012KT 4SM -SHRA BR OVC005 FM041500 24016G25KT P6SM VCSH BKN012 BKN025"
"KORF 032241Z 0323/0418 21008KT P6SM -RA OVC025 TEMPO 0401/0403 OVC015 FM040300 22009KT 5SM -RA OVC015 FM040500 22012KT 4SM -SHRA BR OVC008 FM041500 24016G25KT P6SM VCSH BKN012 BKN025"
"KORF 032340Z 0400/0424 21008KT P6SM -RA OVC025 FM040200 22009KT 5SM -RA OVC015 FM040400 22012KT 4SM -RA BR OVC008 FM040800 22014KT 4SM -DZ BR OVC004 FM041500 24014G23KT P6SM OVC008 FM041900 22013G22KT"
"KORF 040100Z 0401/0424 21008KT P6SM OVC015 TEMPO 0403/0405 -RA OVC008 FM040500 22012KT 4SM -RA BR OVC008 FM040800 22014KT 4SM -DZ BR OVC004 FM041500 24014G23KT P6SM OVC008 FM041900 22013G22KT 4SM BR O"
"KORF 040535Z 0406/0506 22014KT 4SM -DZ BR OVC004 FM041500 23014G22KT P6SM OVC008 FM041900 22013G22KT 4SM BR OVC020 FM050400 36012KT 4SM -RA OVC007"
"KORF 041138Z 0412/0512 23016G24KT 5SM BR OVC004 FM041600 23015G23KT P6SM BKN008 FM041900 22013G22KT 4SM BR OVC020 FM050400 35014G22KT 4SM -RA OVC007"
"KORF 041306Z 0413/0512 23016G24KT 2SM BR OVC004 TEMPO 0413/0415 1SM BR OVC002 FM041600 23015G23KT P6SM BKN008 FM041900 22013G22KT 4SM BR OVC020 FM050400 35014G22KT 4SM -RA OVC007"
"KORF 041516Z 0415/0512 23013G23KT 5SM BR OVC005 FM041600 23013G23KT P6SM OVC007 FM041800 23013G23KT P6SM OVC015 FM050000 20010KT 5SM BR OVC007 FM050600 35015G25KT 4SM -RA BR OVC007"
"KORF 041733Z 0418/0518 23010G18KT P6SM OVC015 FM042100 20012KT P6SM BKN025 FM050000 21012KT P6SM OVC025 FM050600 01015G25KT 4SM -RA BR OVC007"

"KORF 020051Z 11003KT 10SM BKN004 OVC023 00/M01 A3034 RMK AO2 UPE2357 SLP273 P0000 I1001 T00001011 $"
"KORF 020058Z 13004KT 9SM FEW004 OVC021 00/M01 A3033 RMK AO2 PRESFR T00001011 $"
"KORF 020151Z 00000KT 10SM OVC016 00/M01 A3032 RMK AO2 SLP265 I1000 T00001006 $"
"KORF 020232Z 17004KT 8SM BKN010 BKN015 OVC080 00/M01 A3029 RMK AO2 PRESFR I1000 T00001011 $"
"KORF 020246Z 17005KT 6SM BR BKN009 OVC065 00/M01 A3027 RMK AO2 I1000 $"
"KORF 020251Z 19004KT 5SM BR SCT009 OVC065 00/M01 A3027 RMK AO2 SLP250 60000 I1000 I3001 T00001011 56023 $"
"KORF 020351Z VRB03KT 5SM BR SCT060 OVC120 01/M01 A3024 RMK AO2 SLP241 T00061011 $"
"KORF 020358Z 27003KT 4SM BR SCT006 SCT060 OVC120 01/M01 A3026 RMK AO2 PRESRR T00061011 $"
"KORF 020408Z 24004KT 4SM BR BKN006 OVC120 01/M01 A3025 RMK AO2 T00061011 $"
"KORF 020451Z 24008KT 5SM BR OVC007 01/M01 A3026 RMK AO2 SLP247 T00061011 400111022 $"
"KORF 020551Z AUTO 23007KT 9SM OVC008 01/M01 A3023 RMK AO2 SLP234 60000 I6001 T00111006 10011 21006 58016 TSNO $"
"KORF 020640Z AUTO 23010KT 9SM SCT006 01/00 A3020 RMK AO2 T00110000 TSNO $"
"KORF 020651Z AUTO 23009KT 9SM FEW006 01/00 A3019 RMK AO2 SLP221 T00110000 TSNO $"
"KORF 020751Z AUTO 21011KT 10SM CLR 01/00 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP204 T00110000 TSNO $"
"KORF 020827Z AUTO 24008KT 10SM SCT006 02/00 A3014 RMK AO2 T00170000 TSNO $"
"KORF 020836Z AUTO 25006KT 9SM BKN005 02/01 A3014 RMK AO2 T00170006 TSNO $"
"KORF 020851Z AUTO 24008KT 7SM OVC004 02/00 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP204 T00170000 55030 TSNO $"
"KORF 020915Z AUTO 23007KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC002 02/00 A3012 RMK AO2 T00170000 TSNO $"
"KORF 020931Z AUTO 23007KT 1 1/4SM R05/6000VP6000FT BR OVC002 02/01 A3012 RMK AO2 T00170006 TSNO $"
"KORF 020947Z AUTO 24009KT 3/4SM R05/4000V4500FT BR VV002 02/01 A3012 RMK AO2 TSNO $"
"KORF 020951Z AUTO 23008KT 3/4SM R05/4000V4500FT BR VV002 02/01 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP198 T00170006 TSNO $"
"KORF 021006Z AUTO 23008KT 1SM R05/4000FT BR VV002 02/01 A3012 RMK AO2 T00170006 TSNO $"
"KORF 021051Z AUTO 23009KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC002 02/01 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP202 T00170006 TSNO $"
"KORF 021118Z AUTO 25005KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC002 02/01 A3014 RMK AO2 T00170006 TSNO $"
"KORF 021134Z AUTO 24008KT 3SM BR OVC002 02/01 A3014 RMK AO2 T00170006 TSNO $"
"KORF 021151Z AUTO 23010KT 4SM BR OVC002 02/01 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP200 70006 T00170006 10017 20011 50002 TSNO $"
"KORF 021158Z AUTO 22011KT 4SM BR OVC003 02/01 A3012 RMK AO2 T00170006 TSNO $"
"KORF 021251Z AUTO 23010KT 5SM BR BKN004 OVC090 02/01 A3013 RMK AO2 UPB22E51RAB38E49 SLP203 P0000 T00220011 TSNO $"
"KORF 021308Z AUTO 23008KT 4SM -RA BR SCT005 BKN060 OVC090 02/01 A3014 RMK AO2 RAB05 P0000 T00220011 TSNO $"
"KORF 021351Z AUTO 24008KT 5SM BR SCT049 BKN060 OVC090 03/02 A3016 RMK AO2 RAB05E38UPB38E40 SLP213 P0001 T00280017 TSNO $"
"KORF 021403Z AUTO 25005KT 5SM BR FEW005 SCT050 OVC060 03/03 A3017 RMK AO2 T00330028 TSNO $"
"KORF 021419Z AUTO 27005KT 5SM BR BKN005 OVC060 03/03 A3018 RMK AO2 T00330033 TSNO $"
"KORF 021451Z AUTO 34010G15KT 9SM BKN007 OVC060 03/02 A3022 RMK AO2 PRESRR SLP234 60001 T00330017 53034 TSNO $"
"KORF 021551Z AUTO 33005KT 3SM BR OVC003 02/01 A3026 RMK AO2 SLP245 T00220011 TSNO"
"KORF 021620Z AUTO VRB04KT 7SM SCT003 OVC120 04/03 A3026 RMK AO2 T00390028 TSNO"
"KORF 021651Z AUTO 36008KT 10SM SCT055 BKN120 06/01 A3026 RMK AO2 SLP246 T00560011 TSNO"
"KORF 021751Z AUTO 02010KT 10SM CLR 05/01 A3026 RMK AO2 SLP247 60001 T00500011 10056 20017 51013 TSNO"
"KORF 021851Z AUTO 02010KT 10SM CLR 04/00 A3026 RMK AO2 SLP245 T00440000 TSNO"
"KORF 021951Z AUTO 02010KT 10SM CLR 05/M01 A3027 RMK AO2 SLP249 T00501006 TSNO"
"KORF 022051Z AUTO 03013KT 10SM CLR 04/M02 A3028 RMK AO2 SLP253 T00441022 53006 TSNO"
"KORF 022151Z AUTO 03010KT 10SM CLR 04/M03 A3029 RMK AO2 SLP256 T00441033 TSNO"
"KORF 022251Z AUTO 04007KT 10SM CLR 03/M04 A3032 RMK AO2 SLP265 T00281039 TSNO"
"KORF 022351Z AUTO 03006KT 10SM CLR 03/M04 A3035 RMK AO2 SLP275 T00281044 10056 20022 53022 TSNO"
"KORF 030051Z AUTO 02007KT 10SM CLR 03/M05 A3036 RMK AO2 SLP280 T00281050 TSNO"
"KORF 030151Z AUTO 03008KT 10SM CLR 02/M05 A3037 RMK AO2 SLP283 T00221050 TSNO"
"KORF 030251Z AUTO 02007KT 10SM CLR 02/M06 A3039 RMK AO2 SLP289 T00221056 53014 TSNO"
"KORF 030351Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 02/M07 A3041 RMK AO2 SLP297 T00171072 TSNO"
"KORF 030451Z AUTO 01007KT 10SM CLR 01/M05 A3040 RMK AO2 SLP294 T00111050 400560006 TSNO"
"KORF 030551Z AUTO 01009KT 10SM CLR 01/M06 A3041 RMK AO2 SLP296 T00111056 10028 20011 51007 TSNO"
"KORF 030651Z AUTO 02011KT 10SM CLR 01/M06 A3040 RMK AO2 SLP293 T00111056 TSNO"
"KORF 030751Z AUTO 02011KT 10SM CLR 01/M06 A3038 RMK AO2 SLP288 T00061056 TSNO"
"KORF 030851Z AUTO 04010KT 10SM CLR 01/M07 A3039 RMK AO2 SLP291 T00061067 55005 TSNO"
"KORF 030951Z AUTO 04005KT 10SM CLR M01/M07 A3042 RMK AO2 SLP299 T10061072 TSNO"
"KORF 031051Z AUTO 05007KT 10SM CLR M01/M06 A3040 RMK AO2 SLP294 T10061061 TSNO"
"KORF 031151Z AUTO 05006KT 10SM CLR 00/M06 A3041 RMK AO2 SLP296 70001 T00001061 10011 21011 51005 TSNO"
"KORF 031251Z AUTO 03008KT 10SM FEW065 00/M05 A3044 RMK AO2 PRESRR SLP308 T00001050 TSNO"
"KORF 031351Z AUTO 06008KT 10SM SCT060 01/M04 A3044 RMK AO2 SLP308 T00061044 TSNO"
"KORF 031451Z AUTO 05007KT 10SM OVC055 01/M04 A3045 RMK AO2 SLP311 T00111044 51015 TSNO"
"KORF 031551Z AUTO 03006KT 10SM OVC055 02/M03 A3042 RMK AO2 SLP300 T00221033 TSNO"
"KORF 031651Z AUTO 07006KT 9SM OVC055 02/M03 A3038 RMK AO2 SLP287 T00171033 TSNO"
"KORF 031751Z AUTO 03007KT 9SM OVC049 02/M03 A3034 RMK AO2 SLP274 T00221028 10022 20000 58037 TSNO"
"KORF 031851Z AUTO 07005KT 10SM OVC044 03/M02 A3028 RMK AO2 SLP253 T00331022 TSNO"
"KORF 031951Z AUTO 02003KT 9SM OVC040 03/M02 A3025 RMK AO2 SLP244 T00281017 TSNO"
"KORF 032051Z AUTO 17005KT 10SM SCT030 OVC049 05/M01 A3021 RMK AO2 SLP229 T00501006 56045 TSNO"
"KORF 032151Z 17005KT 10SM FEW030 OVC050 06/M01 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP214 BINOVC T00561006"
"KORF 032158Z 19005KT 10SM OVC027 06/M01 A3016 RMK AO2 T00561006"
"KORF 032232Z 24006KT 10SM OVC031 06/00 A3017 RMK AO2 T00560000"
"KORF 032241Z 24004KT 7SM -RA OVC029 06/00 A3017 RMK AO2 RAB39 P0000 T00560000"
"KORF 032251Z 20008KT 9SM OVC029 06/00 A3017 RMK AO2 RAB39E48 SLP216 P0000 T00560000"
"KORF 032351Z 22006KT 10SM OVC024 06/01 A3015 RMK AO2 SLP208 60000 T00560006 10061 20017 56022"
"KORF 040030Z 22009KT 10SM FEW023 BKN033 OVC042 06/01 A3012 RMK AO2 T00560011"
"KORF 040051Z 22009KT 10SM BKN014 BKN020 OVC041 06/01 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP195 T00560011"
"KORF 040151Z 21012KT 10SM OVC010 06/02 A3009 RMK AO2 SLP187 T00610022"
"KORF 040220Z 21013KT 10SM OVC009 06/03 A3008 RMK AO2 T00610028"
"KORF 040251Z 21011KT 9SM OVC008 07/03 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP181 T00670033 56026"
"KORF 040351Z 21013KT 6SM BR OVC007 07/04 A3003 RMK AO2 SLP167 T00670044"
"KORF 040451Z 21014KT 4SM BR OVC004 07/05 A3001 RMK AO2 RAB17E26 SLP161 P0001 T00670050 400671011"
"KORF 040551Z 22016KT 5SM -RA BR OVC003 07/05 A2999 RMK AO2 RAB0453 SLP155 P0002 60003 T00670050 10067 20056 56026"
"KORF 040621Z AUTO 22013KT 3SM RA BR BKN005 OVC008 07/06 A2998 RMK AO2 P0008 T00720056 TSNO"
"KORF 040651Z AUTO 23012KT 4SM -RA BR OVC005 07/06 A2997 RMK AO2 SLP149 P0015 T00720061 TSNO"
"KORF 040714Z AUTO 22013KT 10SM OVC004 08/06 A2996 RMK AO2 RAE05 P0001 T00780061 TSNO"
"KORF 040751Z AUTO 22015G23KT 6SM BR OVC004 07/06 A2994 RMK AO2 RAE05 SLP138 P0002 T00720056 TSNO"
"KORF 040851Z AUTO 22015KT 3SM BR OVC003 08/06 A2992 RMK AO2 SLP133 60017 T00780061 56022 TSNO"
"KORF 040858Z AUTO 22019G23KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC003 08/07 A2992 RMK AO2 T00780067 TSNO"
"KORF 040904Z AUTO 23018G24KT 3SM BR OVC002 08/07 A2993 RMK AO2 T00830072 TSNO"
"KORF 040920Z AUTO 22020G27KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC002 08/07 A2992 RMK AO2 PK WND 22027/0920 T00830072 TSNO"
"KORF 040930Z AUTO 22018KT 3SM BR OVC002 08/07 A2992 RMK AO2 PK WND 22027/0920 T00830072 TSNO"
"KORF 040951Z AUTO 22017G27KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC002 09/08 A2992 RMK AO2 PK WND 22028/0941 SLP132 T00890078 TSNO"
"KORF 041011Z AUTO 22018G25KT 1 3/4SM BR OVC002 08/07 A2994 RMK AO2 T00830072 TSNO"
"KORF 041018Z AUTO 23017G25KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC002 09/08 A2993 RMK AO2 T00890078 TSNO"
"KORF 041038Z AUTO 23018KT 4SM BR OVC002 09/08 A2993 RMK AO2 PK WND 23028/1024 T00940083 TSNO"
"KORF 041047Z AUTO 22016G29KT 5SM BR OVC003 09/08 A2993 RMK AO2 PK WND 23029/1041 TSNO"
"KORF 041051Z AUTO 22019G26KT 5SM BR OVC003 09/08 A2993 RMK AO2 PK WND 23029/1041 SLP134 T00940083 TSNO"
"KORF 041151Z AUTO 22016G24KT 7SM OVC004 11/09 A2993 RMK AO2 PK WND 23028/1055 SLP136 60017 70020 T01060094 10106 20067 52004 TSNO"
"KORF 041233Z 23015G28KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC004 12/11 A2994 RMK AO2 PK WND 24028/1227 T01170106"
"KORF 041251Z 23017KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC004 11/10 A2994 RMK AO2 PK WND 24028/1227 SLP139 T01110100"
"KORF 041351Z 24012G19KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC004 12/11 A2997 RMK AO2 SLP146 T01170106"
"KORF 041358Z 24013G19KT 5SM BR OVC004 12/11 A2996 RMK AO2 T01170106"
"KORF 041407Z 25013G21KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC004 12/11 A2996 RMK AO2 T01170106"
"KORF 041428Z 24010KT 7SM OVC004 12/11 A2997 RMK AO2 T01220111"
"KORF 041442Z 24008G16KT 8SM OVC005 12/11 A2997 RMK AO2 T01220111"
"KORF 041451Z 24010KT 8SM OVC005 12/11 A2997 RMK AO2 SLP149 T01220111 52013"
"KORF 041551Z 25006G15KT 10SM OVC007 14/12 A2997 RMK AO2 SLP149 T01390117"
"KORF 041651Z 24007KT 10SM OVC009 14/12 A2997 RMK AO2 SLP147 T01440117"
"KORF 041708Z 23009KT 10SM OVC011 15/12 A2996 RMK AO2 T01500122"
"KORF 041751Z 23009KT 10SM OVC012 16/13 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP136 T01610128 10161 20106 58013"
"KORF 041841Z 23010KT 10SM OVC015 17/13 A2992 RMK AO2 T01670128"
"KORF 041851Z 24011KT 10SM OVC015 17/13 A2992 RMK AO2 SLP131 T01670128"

[FloridaMan]

I apologize for being presumptuous as to the identity and history of the pilot.

 

There was something that happened to me a couple weeks ago that I started to post, but instead I contacted some of my professional friends because I assumed that I might have gotten chewed out here from people who had not experienced this. 

 

I believe it may be related to what this pilot experienced. I have owned my M20F for three years and I've put nearly 600 hours on it east of the Rockies from MN to NY, FL, TX, NV and places all over in between. I'm instrument rated and I'd like to think that I have a mindset that focuses on safety and continued training, including upset, aerobatic and taildragger training. This weather we've had here in Florida is different than what I'm used to seeing here. The other night I was heading back from the east coast fighting 50-60kt headwinds. Things were smooth at altitude, though my ground speed was so bad that I was concerned that my airspeed indicator may have been incorrect. 

 

In my descent I experienced vertical turbulence that felt like I was in free-fall at times. Wind conditions on the ground were reported as 6kts and about 30 degrees off the runway. I had an uneventful touchdown and then on roll out it was as if somebody picked my airplane up and pointed me towards the edge of the runway. Fortunately the runway was 150ft wide and I recovered, but it scared the hell out of me and the wind was out of nowhere. 

 

I also had another recent experience where there was a shallow cloud from probably 8000-10000 ft a couple miles off my left wing. It seemed benign enough, but there was moderate turbulence and it felt as if it were sucking me in laterally as I passed it. 

[201er]

 

I have years of this data archived as a side project.

What a perv. I knew there'd be one around

 

I'm having trouble piecing this together because I haven't seen the times and what not so what would be the time of departure and arrival to put those figures into perspective?

[Steve65E-NC]

 Thanks for posting the ATC audio transcript.  Many of us have been in similar situations and it reminded us to avoid being in them again.   I thought ATC did a pretty good job till the very end.  Unless he knew the airplane was already  down,  I wonder if ATC should maybe have immediately silenced the service vehicle given the seriousness of the situation for the Mooney.  He had offered the Mooney radar guidance.    The pilot seemed pretty capable and  responsive throughout.  Given all the factors to date,  I think this approach should have come out different.  It will be interesting to hear the final report.  The pilots claim of one hour plus of fuel seems a little strange unless equipped with long range tanks.   

[Marauder]

What a perv. I knew there'd be one around

 

I'm having trouble piecing this together because I haven't seen the times and what not so what would be the time of departure and arrival to put those figures into perspective?

 

Accident occurred around 4 am

 

METARs:

 

 

"KORF 040751Z AUTO 22015G23KT 6SM BR OVC004 07/06 A2994 RMK AO2 RAE05 SLP138 P0002 T00720056 TSNO"

"KORF 040851Z AUTO 22015KT 3SM BR OVC003 08/06 A2992 RMK AO2 SLP133 60017 T00780061 56022 TSNO"

"KORF 040858Z AUTO 22019G23KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC003 08/07 A2992 RMK AO2 T00780067 TSNO"

"KORF 040904Z AUTO 23018G24KT 3SM BR OVC002 08/07 A2993 RMK AO2 T00830072 TSNO"

 

"KORF 040920Z AUTO 22020G27KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC002 08/07 A2992 RMK AO2 PK WND 22027/0920 T00830072 TSNO"

"KORF 040930Z AUTO 22018KT 3SM BR OVC002 08/07 A2992 RMK AO2 PK WND 22027/0920 T00830072 TSNO"

"KORF 040951Z AUTO 22017G27KT 2 1/2SM BR OVC002 09/08 A2992 RMK AO2 PK WND 22028/0941 SLP132 T00890078 TSNO"

"KORF 041011Z AUTO 22018G25KT 1 3/4SM BR OVC002 08/07 A2994 RMK AO2 T00830072 TSNO"

[Marauder]

TAFs:

 

 

"KORF 040100Z 0401/0424 21008KT P6SM OVC015 TEMPO 0403/0405 -RA OVC008 FM040500 22012KT 4SM -RA BR OVC008 FM040800 22014KT 4SM -DZ BR OVC004 FM041500 24014G23KT P6SM OVC008 FM041900 22013G22KT 4SM BR O"

 

"KORF 040535Z 0406/0506 22014KT 4SM -DZ BR OVC004 FM041500 23014G22KT P6SM OVC008 FM041900 22013G22KT 4SM BR OVC020 FM050400 36012KT 4SM -RA OVC007"