Oil analysis

[Guest]

Just wondering how many of you do regular oil analysis and recommendation for which company?

There are only a few here in Canada and I'm having issues with them.

Clarence

[Sabremech]

I don't do it regularly on my own airplane, but I've heard good things about Blackstone here in the States.

David

[Fly By Night]

+1 for Blackstone, they do a nice job. Regular oil analysis is a very good idea, cheap insurance.

[Danb]

Cheap insurance Blackstone ..I like the comparisons provided..

[FlyDave]

I'm doing oil analysis every other oil change. I used to use the place in Phoenix (I don't remember the name but the kit was white plastic container with blue print on it).

But I used Blackstone on the last one. They provided not only the numbers for the analysis but a report that was written by a human being discussing the analysis of my oil. I was very impressed - they have my business!

[Robert C.]

Blackstone charges $25, the container is free.

 

You get a detailed report and a short write-up with suggestions about what may be going on. My most recent sample analysis attached.

 

I aim for every 33-50 hrs for oil changes and have a Blackstone analysis done at each.N446PC-Oil Analysis -09-12-14.pdf

 

Robert

[ArtVandelay]

My MSC uses Avlab

[Piloto]

I just cut and open the oil filter checking for particles. Oil analysis are sometimes like blood tests. They will not show that big tumor in your head. The oil that you send to the lab has already been filtered.

 

José 

[bnicolette]

I also use Blackstone on a regular basis.  Nice to have a trending information.  You know they say our engines talk to us and I think the analysis is a very important part of that information.  I also like the trending information provided by the new engine monitors.  For what the cost of the analysis is, it's nothing in the grand scheme of things.  Very cheap insurance and reassurance that things are working together well.   

[Ned Gravel]

I just cut and open the oil filter checking for particles. Oil analysis are sometimes like blood tests. They will not show that big tumor in your head. The oil that you send to the lab has already been filtered.

 

José 

 

Correct Jose, but if you wish to continue with the analogy of a disease, the analysis will show the leukocytes.

 

And that is what the chemistry behind an oil analysis is all about.  Think "dissolved." In fact, when you see the big bits in your oil filter, it may already be too late.

 

The problem with most oil analysis labs is that they do not have the QA and QC in place to really control their testing processes, and this is even more critical for organic chemistry analysis.  I have never used Blackstone, but I have heard that they are a competent lab.  

 

At EAA last year, I saw one booth run by a lab in Hanger D that showed me their certificate of accreditation from L-A-B, and they are the first of these types of labs to be accredited.  Within the next few years or so, accreditation will be as much a market differentiator for these labs as it is for those testing drinking water.

 

In the meantime, GA is too small a market niche for them to make much money (with the possible exception of Blackstone) and that may be why Clarence is having difficulty.  We are just too small to worry about.

[Sabremech]

Correct Jose, but if you wish to continue with the analogy of a disease, the analysis will show the leukocytes.

 

And that is what the chemistry behind an oil analysis is all about.  Think "dissolved." In fact, when you see the big bits in your oil filter, it may already be too late.

 

The problem with most oil analysis labs is that they do not have the QA and QC in place to really control their testing processes, and this is even more critical for organic chemistry analysis.  I have never used Blackstone, but I have heard that they are a competent lab.  

 

At EAA last year, I saw one booth run by a lab in Hanger D that showed me their certificate of accreditation from L-A-B, and they are the first of these types of labs to be accredited.  Within the next few years or so, accreditation will be as much a market differentiator for these labs as it is for those testing drinking water.

 

In the meantime, GA is too small a market niche for them to make much money (with the possible exception of Blackstone) and that may be why Clarence is having difficulty.  We are just too small to worry about.

If I find something in my oil filter after cutting it open, I don't think that's too late. I'm on the ground!

[Piloto]

Correct Jose, but if you wish to continue with the analogy of a disease, the analysis will show the leukocytes.

 

And that is what the chemistry behind an oil analysis is all about.  Think "dissolved." In fact, when you see the big bits in your oil filter, it may already be too late.

 

The problem with most oil analysis labs is that they do not have the QA and QC in place to really control their testing processes, and this is even more critical for organic chemistry analysis.  I have never used Blackstone, but I have heard that they are a competent lab.  

 

At EAA last year, I saw one booth run by a lab in Hanger D that showed me their certificate of accreditation from L-A-B, and they are the first of these types of labs to be accredited.  Within the next few years or so, accreditation will be as much a market differentiator for these labs as it is for those testing drinking water.

 

In the meantime, GA is too small a market niche for them to make much money (with the possible exception of Blackstone) and that may be why Clarence is having difficulty.  We are just too small to worry about.

 

The blood tests on me never diagnosed ahead my pituitary tumor. On Ebola diarrhea comes before it shows on blood. I always check the bowl.

 

José

[Ned Gravel]

If I find something in my oil filter after cutting it open, I don't think that's too late. I'm on the ground!

 

True.    For you yes.  

 

For the engine, perhaps not so much.  

[Sabremech]

True.    For you yes.  

 

For the engine, perhaps not so much.  

I don't see much difference between finding something when I cut open an oil filter or getting an oil analysis with findings. Both will most likely result in engine maintenance. Best thing about the oil filter is I know right then and am not flying around while waiting on the oil analysis to return.

David

[Bob - S50]

We use AvLab and do it with every oil change.  Its less than $25.

 

We also have the filter cut open.

 

We would prefer to see a trend in the oil analysis and catch a problem early.  Once an engine starts making metal large enough to see in the filter, how long will it be until it makes a lot of metal and no noise?  Don't know.  What if it starts making metal just after an oil change?  Will it make it to the next oil change?  The earlier we identify a potential problem the better.  Out here in the wild west we don't always have a lot of flat farmland or roads to land on when the fan stops turning.

 

Continuing with the medical analogy, we would prefer to identify the cancer when it is stage one rather than stage 3 or 4.

 

Bob

[PTK]

Sort of on topic here but you know what bugs me?

I went to an MSC recently to have something checked and while there I had the oil changed. Evidently they had no plans on removing and cleaning the screen so I inquired. Their excuse was it's difficult to get to! Granted the filter was very clean and there was no real reason to remove screen but that kind of answer bugs me? I wouldn't expect it from a MSC. (Same one who wanted 1700$ for hoses, parts only!)

[Super Dave]

We use Blackstone and have always had quick service.

Interestingly, I was at two separate talks at Oshkosh this year; one by Mike Busch and one by a Continental tech rep. When the subject of oil analysis came up, they both mentioned Blackstone and said something to the effect that they do a fine oil analysis, but that Blackstone should omit the half baked commentary from the report.

[fantom]

Oil Analysis - shows microscopic ingredients usually indicating SLOW wear events. Interesting long term trending of little immediate value. Very easy for pilot to do; just mail it off. I do it at annual just because.

Oil Filter Cutting - can be a bit messy and time consuming for the pilot, but larger stuff can be found, and MUCH more indicative of potential problems. Sorry, not as easy as mailing off an oil sample. I do it at every oil change.

Suction (finger) Screen Inspection - will turn up BIG stuff that never even gets to the oil filter, usually indicating an immediate issue.

Got to crawl under the plane, get messy, and not easy to do, especially the first time. Most shops don't do it, even on an annual.

So you can spend a few bucks for a vague sense of security, or invest some time and effort to find out what your engine is trying to tell you and perhaps save it and your butt.

BTW, the Phoenix place is AOA oil analysis, 800-445-7930; every bit as good as Blackstone, if not better, AND less expensive.

For what it's worth, Mike Busch agrees with the above.

[fantom]

Sort of on topic here but you know what bugs me?

Evidently they had no plans on removing and cleaning the screen so I inquired. Their excuse was it's difficult to get to! Granted the filter was very clean and there was no real reason to remove screen but that kind of answer bugs me? only!)

MSC or not, it is a pain in the butt to get to and I know of only one shop, anywhere, that does it as SOP with an oil change...and they are primarily a Cezzzzna shop.

If getting some work done while you're waiting, it would be a special request at best, and expect to be charged for at least another hour of labor, IF they are willing to do it at all.

[Awful_Charlie]

I do oil analysis every oil change, but don't rush it! a) it seems to take two weeks for the post to get a sample over the the US (and the local firms want $50+ to do the most basic test), and I just leave the extracted filter element to drain onto a newspaper for a week or two before scanning it for bits.

 

The cost of the oil analysis is relatively small compared to the cost of the oil, and from their feedback can determine if I want to extend the interval (admittedly, this take some time to get a handle on). Sure - it it comes back with cautions all over it, I'm unlikely to ground the aircraft, but I might be a bit more cautious in the trips I take. The oil filter only takes a few minutes to extract, and it's going in the bin eventually anyway, so what's not to like?

 

FWIW I use AOA, and get half a dozen 'kits' from Spruce at a time, this lowers the unit cost (but I still get stiffed for the carriage and import)

[N601RX]

I've found the twister below works really well for safetying the screen. Use a piece of wire about 3 ft long so you can thread the two ends through the 2 small holes in the end of it. Do this out in the open and then slide the twister up the wire to the screen. Twist, Then cut the excess off.

[Bob_Belville]

I have been letting my A&P send my oil samples to AOA in Phoenix but after seeing something from Mike Busch I sent the most recent sample to Blackstone. That was just this week. 

[jezzie]

Clarence,

I get mine done here in Edmonton by ALS Labratory Group they have a lab in Burlington, I can PM a copy of my last one if you like.

 

Eldon

 

Burlington, Ontario

 

 

csr.burlington@alstribology.com

 

 

877-732-9559

 

 

[Sabremech]

I'll preface what I'm about to say that this is what I do and not what I recommend for others to do.

I find that an oil analysis is nice to know information but not really relevant to the actual condition of my engine. This is why I seldom if ever send a sample in. The oil filter in my opinion tells me right now what my engine is doing. Unless you do an oil analysis every 5 to 10 hours and not just at oil change, what is it telling you? Not a whole lot more than looking at the filter material.

When do you take an oil sample report as serious enough to tear into your engine? In my experience, the samples haven't alerted me to a problem, but the particles in the oil filter did.

Again, this is what I do and I'm not knocking anyone for doing oil analysis. Any thoughts?

David

[Guest]

Clarence,

I get mine done here in Edmonton by ALS Labratory Group they have a lab in Burlington, I can PM a copy of my last one if you like.

 

Eldon

 

Burlington, Ontario

 

 

csr.burlington@alstribology.com

 

 

877-732-9559

Thanks Eldon,

That is the lab we've been using since they took over the previous one. Their results are sporadic at best, so I'm looking for opinions on labs stateside.

Maybe I have to send Ned over to audit their process, Ned?

Clarence