Freeflight ADS-B

[amillet]

I do not have a WAAS GPS (KLN90 . I was willing to spend $6K for ADS-B as add on to my existing panel, but the new $3800 labor estimate made me reconsider. I may as well update the GPS at the same time as the ADS-B install.

[joepilot]

I just got my plane back from Freeflight Rangr XVR (in/out) install using G530W for position. I'll report back when I get time to do more test flying, but at first glance I have to find out if/how to get traffic on the first 2 G530 nav pages vs the separate traffic page. Also, both Freeflight and WingX claimed compatibility, but not getting info through to WingX. Ahh, fun, complicated, expensive avionics...

[Marauder]

I just got my plane back from Freeflight Rangr XVR (in/out) install using G530W for position. I'll report back when I get time to do more test flying, but at first glance I have to find out if/how to get traffic on the first 2 G530 nav pages vs the separate traffic page. Also, both Freeflight and WingX claimed compatibility, but not getting info through to WingX. Ahh, fun, complicated, expensive avionics...

Joe -- I would be very interested in hearing what you get on the 530. It was my understanding that you would not get FIS-B or TIS-B (traffic and weather) on any of the Garmin products when using a FreeFlight unit. It will support an Aspen (provided that you pay for the Aspen software upgrade).

If you are seeing traffic on the traffic page, you may be seeing TIS-A which is linked to the ES function.

As for the ForeFlight and WingX compatibility. I heard they were working with ForeFlight on compatibility with that app and that WingX should work (I will check the FreeFlight site and report back).

My guess is the connection with WingX will be a WiFi connection. You will need to search for it when the FreeFlight system is powered up.

[Marauder]

I just got my plane back from Freeflight Rangr XVR (in/out) install using G530W for position. I'll report back when I get time to do more test flying, but at first glance I have to find out if/how to get traffic on the first 2 G530 nav pages vs the separate traffic page. Also, both Freeflight and WingX claimed compatibility, but not getting info through to WingX. Ahh, fun, complicated, expensive avionics...

Joe -- I looked over the FreeFlight website. I don't see any mention of integration with the Garmin products. So, the traffic you are seeing on the traffic page is probably TIS-A, not TIS-B.

As for the app integration. Looks like they have a few signed up and a few they are working on. It doesn't look like ForeFlight is on their list at this point.

http://www.freeflightsystems.com/products/ads-b/app-integrations

[carusoam]

Some companies are looking forward to integrate with other company's products.

And the other Gompany wants to stand alone...

One BKompany tried to go it alone, but was unable...

I applaude the companies that support the piecemeal upgrades that I have in mind...

Go Aspen, WingX, FreeFlight, etal....

Really, I would prefer DK's panel, fully updated all at once.

The monthly XM Bill takes more dedication than I can muster.

Best regards,

-a-

[joepilot]

Marauder,

I didn't do any research on the Foreflight app.

I'm really hoping for Freeflight (ADSB) and the WingX app compatibility, as they claimed.

I also didn't go the "Garmin ADSB" route for reasons just mentioned; Garmin doesn't want to play with others. (Actually was shocked when the shop said I'd see traffic on the 530). So we'll see how THAT decision plays out!

I believe the ADS-B technogy & equipment will get better and easier once it matures more. Maybe even cheaper. haha

[Marauder]

Marauder,

I didn't do any research on the Foreflight app.

I'm really hoping for Freeflight (ADSB) and the WingX app compatibility, as they claimed.

I also didn't go the "Garmin ADSB" route for reasons just mentioned; Garmin doesn't want to play with others. (Actually was shocked when the shop said I'd see traffic on the 530). So we'll see how THAT decision plays out!

I believe the ADS-B technogy & equipment will get better and easier once it matures more. Maybe even cheaper. haha

Thanks for the update. Do you have a squitter transponder (Garmin 330ES, KT-74, etc.)? If so, you should be see TIS-A on the 530.

Keep us posted!

[joepilot]

Hi guys,

Got my plane back (2nd time) from the shop. Apparently they didn't have some pin connectors hooked up quite right. FreeFlight works great now.

Only traffic on G530 is on the separate traffic page (see pic below), not any of the Nav pages. Possibly could happen in the future, but who knows. Something about a "heading source"...? The 530 pic is from before my fix when my own shadow was displayed. That's gone now.

Haven't played with the wx yet, but here's the screenshot of traffic on iPad mini with WingX climbing from CNO. Not the easiest to see traffic overlaid on a busy sectional, but easy to pinch-zoom (or select the Garmin traffic page) when a target may be a threat. I'm based at an uncontrolled field in busy SoCal, so nice to see where traffic is vs where some guys say/think they are. Easier to visually acquire.

[carusoam]

Black traffic doesn't stand out very well on a VFR chart.

Try sending an idea of a color change to the folks at WingX...?

They are pretty good at reviewing and reacting to new ideas.

I was genuinely surprised when Barron Hilton emailed me back a while ago...

Best regards,

-a-

[rbs4159]

Latest drama -

   After my last post on 1/31/15 after installing the new 'blue box' that contains the GPS unit, when I was still hopeful, the unit failed again, several times.

   This time, FreeFlight asked me to fly my aircraft to Executive Autopilots at Sacramento Executive (KSAC) for evaluation and repairs. I did, on Friday2/13 - the unit worked perfectly on the flight to KSAC, naturally, as is always the case with intermittent failures, and it also performed flawlessly on the ramp in Sacramento when I dropped it off.

   I left 14N there, rented a Hertz car to get home.

   Executive Autopilots replaced the ADS-B GPS antenna, the antenna-unit coax and connectors. 

   I picked it up and flew it home on the 20th, knowing that every component in the GPS component had now been replaced with brand new components - BTW, FreeFlight paid for the new antenna ($1,200) but not the labor or coax and connectors, since they didn't supply those parts, the installer did. The unit functioned perfectly on the way home from KSAC to KWVI, and has been OK on the one test I ran since.

   Executive Autopilots said the coax and connectors looked fine, and they had no way to test the antenna but - and this was a big but - they thought that the GPS antenna being mounted about 2" from my old 121.5 Mhz ELT antenna could have been the problem - something about re-radiating that I still don't totally understand. So, my A&P and I removed the potentially offending ELT antenna and ELT and installed a new ACC E-04 406Mhz ELT and relocated the new antenna far aft on the fuselage, well away from the 2 GPS antennas - one is the panel-mount nav GPS and the other is the ADS-B antenna.

   I have to say that FreeFlight has been stand-up throughout this process, but this has been a major league hassle for more than 4 months. I'll keep testing until I'm satisfied it's working as designed. If it fails again, I have no idea what to do. My installer has denied any potential installation problems, of course. Stay tuned

[Cruiser]

from the Garmin GPS install manual......

2.4.1 GPS Antenna Location

3a. The GPS antenna should be mounted no closer than two feet from any VHF COM antenna or any other antenna which may emit harmonic interference at the L1 frequency of 1575.42 MHz. An aircraft EMC check (reference VHF COM interference check in Post Installation Checkout procedures) can verify the degradation of GPS in the presence of interference signals. If an EMC check reveals unacceptable interference, insert a GPS notch filter in line with the offending VHF COM or the (re-radiating) ELT transmitter.

[Marauder]

Latest drama -

After my last post on 1/31/15 after installing the new 'blue box' that contains the GPS unit, when I was still hopeful, the unit failed again, several times.

This time, FreeFlight asked me to fly my aircraft to Executive Autopilots at Sacramento Executive (KSAC) for evaluation and repairs. I did, on Friday2/13 - the unit worked perfectly on the flight to KSAC, naturally, as is always the case with intermittent failures, and it also performed flawlessly on the ramp in Sacramento when I dropped it off.

I left 14N there, rented a Hertz car to get home.

Executive Autopilots replaced the ADS-B GPS antenna, the antenna-unit coax and connectors.

I picked it up and flew it home on the 20th, knowing that every component in the GPS component had now been replaced with brand new components - BTW, FreeFlight paid for the new antenna ($1,200) but not the labor or coax and connectors, since they didn't supply those parts, the installer did. The unit functioned perfectly on the way home from KSAC to KWVI, and has been OK on the one test I ran since.

Executive Autopilots said the coax and connectors looked fine, and they had no way to test the antenna but - and this was a big but - they thought that the GPS antenna being mounted about 2" from my old 121.5 Mhz ELT antenna could have been the problem - something about re-radiating that I still don't totally understand. So, my A&P and I removed the potentially offending ELT antenna and ELT and installed a new ACC E-04 406Mhz ELT and relocated the new antenna far aft on the fuselage, well away from the 2 GPS antennas - one is the panel-mount nav GPS and the other is the ADS-B antenna.

I have to say that FreeFlight has been stand-up throughout this process, but this has been a major league hassle for more than 4 months. I'll keep testing until I'm satisfied it's working as designed. If it fails again, I have no idea what to do. My installer has denied any potential installation problems, of course. Stay tuned

Keep us posted.

[Ftlausa]

This thread has further convinced me that the ES upgrade/Stratus solution is the way to go until all this gets worked out more.   

[Ron McBride]

I talked to several avionics shops today about my plane.  Garmin 430W and GTX327 transponder.  I also run Wing-X.  Freeflight Rangr 978 XVR was suggested.  They are going to use the 430W for the was source, the 327 for the control head  and wifi to my Ipad (wing-X).    May need to replace the Encoder though.  Looks like about 8 to 12 hrs. and a total bill of about $4500.00.

Is there any updated pireps on this thread?  

A Garmin solution with the 345 is about $6500.00 and I would need to switch for Foreflight instead of the Wing-X.

Ron

 

[joepilot]

I'm still happy with my FreeFlight XVR ADS-B in/out with wifi to the iPad running Wing X. 1 1/2+ years in service.  I've since replaced nav/com 2 with a 430W, below the 530W. I can put the traffic page on the 430 if I'm using the iPad for something else. Easy to spot targets on the 430 traffic page, also. 

[Marauder]

8 hours ago, joepilot said:

I'm still happy with my FreeFlight XVR ADS-B in/out with wifi to the iPad running Wing X. 1 1/2+ years in service.  I've since replaced nav/com 2 with a 430W, below the 530W. I can put the traffic page on the 430 if I'm using the iPad for something else. Easy to spot targets on the 430 traffic page, also. 

You aerobatic pilots!

 

[takair]

Does the traffic provide audio?  Have been looking at NavWorx solution, which seems similar, but perhaps a little less money.  They have provisions for audio, but not active yet.  Works with ForeFlight, but not sure of others.

[joepilot]

No audio. Don't know about future plans.

[furledd]

I posted a while back on this topic and wanted to give all an update.

I first installed the Freeflight XVR with the 430W, and the traffic worked on the 430W as mentioned by others, not the weather, but you could get both on the Ipad with a variety of Apps, like FlyQ and iFLY GPS

There was indeed a dropout issue on the FF ADS-B connection for many months and FF worked with me and some others to finally fix that problem with a software update, and it did fix it. So it was finally working good last fall, THEN I got an opportunity to get a great trade-in/Upgrade deal. I checked first with the Avidyne solution but tried the computer interface simulator and the menus were not intuitive to me - the new GTN 650 seemed a lot more comfortable. So I bit the bullet on the new Garmin GTN 650 to replace the 430W through a trade in upgrade program at Sarasota Avionics.

Unfortunately, i then found out the Freeflight XVR is not compatible with the GTN 650, so more $$$ coming - the shop offered an additional swap out deal for the just released at that time GTX 345 trading me out of the Freeflight and my GTX-327 transponder. 

Well, all is now done - I hope the last upgrade I ever need LOL but we all know how that goes - the 650/345 combination as you can imagine works great - weather and traffic together, also via Wifi on the Ipad. but always a downside. The downside is that I was used to using FLyQ EFB and iFlyQ on my Ipad and have an extended subscription for FlyQ, but it can not communicate with Garmin because they wont release the protocol. So if i want to use the Ipad to get weather and traffic I have to use Garmin Pilot. I hope they come around and get with a standard program on a common protocol in the future.

But with the full interface and upgraded screen res and size, i wouldn't be using the Ipad as much anymore anyway. And the Ipad will work with the GPS connection and track my flight on the map and give speeds under IFly and FlyQ, just wont get traffic and weather. 

So all in all its a better setup than before.

Edited October 9, 2016 by furledd

[Marauder]

I posted a while back on this topic and wanted to give all an update.
I first installed the Freeflight XVR with the 430W, and the traffic worked on the 430W as mentioned by others, not the weather, but you could get both on the Ipad with a variety of Apps, like FlyQ and iFLY GPS
There was indeed a dropout issue on the FF ADS-B connection for many months and FF worked with me and some others to finally fix that problem with a software update, and it did fix it. So it was finally working good last fall, THEN I got an opportunity to get a great trade-in/Upgrade deal. I checked first with the Avidyne solution but tried the computer interface simulator and the menus were not intuitive to me - the new GTN 650 seemed a lot more comfortable. So I bit the bullet on the new Garmin GTN 650 to replace the 430W through a trade in upgrade program at Sarasota Avionics.
Unfortunately, i then found out the Freeflight XVR is not compatible with the GTN 650, so more $$$ coming - the shop offered an additional swap out deal for the just released at that time GTX 345 trading me out of the Freeflight and my GTX-327 transponder. 
Well, all is now done - I hope the last upgrade I ever need LOL but we all know how that goes - the 650/345 combination as you can imagine works great - weather and traffic together, also via Wifi on the Ipad. but always a downside. The downside is that I was used to using FLyQ EFB and iFlyQ on my Ipad and have an extended subscription for FlyQ, but it can not communicate with Garmin because they wont release the protocol. So if i want to use the Ipad to get weather and traffic I have to use Garmin Pilot. I hope they come around and get with a standard program on a common protocol in the future.
But with the full interface and upgraded screen res and size, i wouldn't be using the Ipad as much anymore anyway. And the Ipad will work with the GPS connection and track my flight on the map and give speeds under IFly and FlyQ, just wont get traffic and weather. 
So all in all its a better setup than before.

Yeah, this the frustration I have been dealing with since I started looking at ADS-B solutions. And people want to know why people wait...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[joepilot]

Compatibility issues are definitely a concern dealing with different manufacturers. Sometimes even hard to get a straight answer from the manufacturer! I guess "compatibility" is what Garmin is selling. But then you have to get stuff that works with Garmin! Lol

[glafaille]

The simplest solution is often the best. Too much integration with other systems hamstrings future upgrade options and makes you tremendously dependant on software upgrades, often from unsympathetic manufacturers.

Seems like the simplest solution always comes back to an "All in One" ADS-B solution like the Freeflight FDL-978-TXL, Navworx ADS600-B or Garmin GDL84.  No communication issues with an independant nav source now or EVER.

 

Pick the one that you think will continue to be supported with software upgrades as this whole ADS-B boondoggle matures, and is priced within your budget.

What a mess, and we are just getting started!

Sometimes I miss the dual navcomm-ADF-ILS days.  Life was simple.