M20C wing on experimental

[kerry]

I saw this plane on ebay.  I thought those on mooneyspace would be interested in seeing it.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Alliance-Experimental-Airplane-/221511983284?forcerrptr=true&hash=item339324a0b4&item=221511983284&pt=Motors_Aircraft

[chrisk]

Maybe Mooney should consider a similar approach

[Jeff_S]

It looks faster than it seems to be, based on the stated performance.

[Hank]

Hmmm . . . Mooney wing, sounds like manual gear. Heavier than my C, with a strange version IO-360, runs faster than me with unknown fuel burn.

 

What's the big ugly "Lowrance Avionics" box on the yoke?

 

Key phrase from the listing—"Warranty:  none"  Yeah, I bet!

 

So it seems that a composite fuse on a Mooney wing is not exactly a winner. But then again, it's got a funny tail on it, too. 

[1964-M20E]

I like it. 

 

Bidders are scarce because of unknown history for this design.  Anybody nearby that could look at it just for fun and let us know how it looks in person?  Looks like the kept the Mooney engine mount as well.

 

Mooney should take the hint and make this something like available as a  fast build kit $60k for the airframe and you build out the rest using any number of 180 to 200+ HP engines.   I can’t say that I’d be first in line if Mooney did this but I would be in line especially if the kept the Mooney tail look.

 

You can keep people working in-between the current model orders.

 

BTW I like the polished prop.

[Bob_Belville]

I am a member of EAA but have no idea what's involved in determining things like w&b limits, Vne, Va, etc. for a unique plane like this. Are you a test pilot every time you take it up? 

[1964-M20E]

Maybe Mooney should buy it test it and then reverse engineering it and produce it as a kit. I think they could sell some. Like I said it keeps your workers busy and increases economies of scale.

 

 

Heck they could not build a prototype cheaper.

[Marauder]

I'm curious how they determined where to put the stall strips. It was my understanding that those are "located" as the plane is taken through its certification flights.

[mooniac15u]

I'm curious how they determined where to put the stall strips. It was my understanding that those are "located" as the plane is taken through its certification flights.

 

It looks like they may have just left them where they were on the Mooney wing.

 

The main goal is just to get the inboard portion of the wing to stall first so that you still have aiflow over the ailerons.  The airflow over most of the wing probably didn't change that much.

[yvesg]

I owned once a Renault "Alliance". I think it was in 1985. I was doing 55 miles a gallon with this which compares with the best today:

Fuel economy on the highway with the 5-speed manual transmission approached 60 mpg-US (3.9 L/100 km; 72 mpg-imp). It was a sensible car for a post-oil crisis period in which good fuel economy was highly prized.[1

yves

[Kmac]

Back up on Barnstormers?

 

https://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?id=1500026

[Yetti]

Even used the 2014 pictures.   I don't see the bend in the wings.  They look straight across.

[David Lloyd]

Landing gear, Torpedo lights, Mooney yokes?  Looks like a bunch of Mooney parts.

[N201MKTurbo]

We all like to improve our interiors, redo our panels and dress up the exterior. He just didn’t know where to stop!

[Austintatious]

IMHO Mooney should just go with an all composite design that is aerodynamically the same as the metal ships.  They pretty much have the aerodynamics nailed.  Just going composite will show some net gain in speed.  A few small refinements here and there, perhaps a change to the fuse but keep the same tail design and they would have a damned fast aircraft with a LOT less labor time laying up the composite rather than bucking all those rivets.   The FUTURE is composite aircraft... if Mooney doesn't get on board, they wont be part of the future.

 

[Ron McBride]

Raise gross weight to 4000 and put in larger flaps to lower stall speed 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

23 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

IMHO Mooney should just go with an all composite design that is aerodynamically the same as the metal ships.  They pretty much have the aerodynamics nailed.  Just going composite will show some net gain in speed.  A few small refinements here and there, perhaps a change to the fuse but keep the same tail design and they would have a damned fast aircraft with a LOT less labor time laying up the composite rather than bucking all those rivets.   The FUTURE is composite aircraft... if Mooney doesn't get on board, they wont be part of the future.

 

Isn’t that what they did with the Ultra?

Edited September 4, 2019 by N201MKTurbo

[Austintatious]

On 9/3/2019 at 10:11 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

Isn’t that what they did with the Ultra?

To my knowledge, the wing is still metal... so is the tail and the fuse.  Well, the structural part of the fuse is metal frame and they put a composite shell over that.

[N201MKTurbo]

Beechcraft thought the same thing, so they built the Starship to replace the King Air.

The King Air is still the King and the starships are rotting in the desert down at KAVQ.

[Brian E.]

I like the "instraments"...them are good.

[Austintatious]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Beechcraft thought the same thing, so they built the Starship to replace the King Air.

The King Air is still the King and the starships are rotting in the desert down at KAVQ.

mmm... the star ship is an interesting story.  We have a much better understanding of composites now.  Also, the starship was a big departure from the king air airframe.  Not only did they turn to composites, but to a canard design at the same time.

[N201MKTurbo]

5 hours ago, Austintatious said:

mmm... the star ship is an interesting story.  We have a much better understanding of composites now.  Also, the starship was a big departure from the king air airframe.  Not only did they turn to composites, but to a canard design at the same time.

But the bottom line was that it had a smaller cabin, was heavier, had a lower payload, and was a lot more expensive to produce. It went a little bit faster on a little less fuel. The minuses outweighed the pluses so they canceled the whole project and bought back all the planes. Except for one that some guy didn't want to give up.

[N201MKTurbo]

Here is what the plane looks like with its regular wing.

Edited September 7, 2019 by N201MKTurbo