No logbook entry for Paint Job

[carusoam]

John,

Is your new avatar looking up the spine of a V-tail?

I'm not familiar how that looks.

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

I redid my interior in 2012 and my A&P signed off but I did send the (automotive) materials - carpet, headliner, leather - to Skandia for flame spread testing. I'll extrapolate the results to say that materials approved for automotive will easily pass the aviation standards. The only issue might be getting a sample of each material to send to the lab if the installation was done in the past w/o records of the materials used...

[AndyFromCB]

Your airplane is perfectly airworthy. The only thing required for that is an annual entry within prior 12 months. You are completely within your rights to toss out all prior logbooks out of the window and fly the aircraft.

[1964-M20E]

Your airplane is perfectly airworthy. The only thing required for that is an annual entry within prior 12 months. You are completely within your rights to toss out all prior logbooks out of the window and fly the aircraft.

Very true i was forgetting about that.  However, aircraft value may be affected.

[mooniac15u]

Your airplane is perfectly airworthy. The only thing required for that is an annual entry within prior 12 months. You are completely within your rights to toss out all prior logbooks out of the window and fly the aircraft.

 

That's not entirely true.  There are requirements under 91.417 regarding documentation of AD compliance that must be "retained and transferred with the aircraft at the time the aircraft is sold."  This includes the method of compliance.  In order to meet this requirement with only a current annual the log entry would have to document the method of compliance for every applicable AD for your aircraft.  http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div8&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.5.7.10

[Steve65E-NC]

I thought you said the paint job was by Mod Squad (Coy Jacobs). As I recall, In the 2000 period when Mod Works had the excellent paint shop, Coy was long gone from there and had moved up to Venice airport to start Mod Squad. Perhaps someone, on the list, who had Mod Works do a paint job during that period could give you the name and license # of the I/A that signed off paint jobs for Mod Works. I know they bought in a guy to set up and operate their very modern paint shop.

Folks who were in involved in Mod Works, possibly as owners, during that period included Tim Coonts and Kevin Surrell (who went on to establish a mid west tank reseal business).

[AmigOne]

The paint job was by the Mod Works. Today I talked to my mechanic who runs a large and reputable maintenance shop and he - knowing the hight quality of the paint job - has no problem signing the logbook with the appropriate entry.  He mentioned that years ago he worked for a company that specialized in reconstructing logbooks of airplanes which had none for a variety of reasons so he is very familiar what needs to be done.    

[Roger O]

Under FAR 43, Appendix A, Paragraph C, item (9) - Preventive Maintenance includes the following:

 

"Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wing tail group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is not required."

 

So apparently, painting a decorative coating is "acceptable preventive procedure" that may be performed without IA-AP oversight (excluding any balanced control surfaces) and returned to service by a signature of a person holding at least a private pilot certificate.

 

As far as a logbook entry requirements go for preventive maintenance read FAR §43.7(f):

 

A person holding at least a private pilot certificate may approve an aircraft for return to service after performing preventive maintenance under the provisions of §43.3(g)

 

So, IF you feel bad about a missing logbook entry for preventive maintenance, you could have the control surfaces checked for proper balance and W/B verified by an I-A, have them note it in you logs and go about your way.

 

Phil

 

Phil, excellent reference that we all should keep.  This obviously allows all of us to touch up the paint, allow decorative graphics to be placed on the fuselage, change the N numbers etc. with a simple log entry without IA approval. 

 

Good stuff!

[chrisk]

Phil, excellent reference that we all should keep.  This obviously allows all of us to touch up the paint, allow decorative graphics to be placed on the fuselage, change the N numbers etc. with a simple log entry without IA approval. 

 

Good stuff!

 

I love that we can do this.  However, I have seen some really bad examples of owner painted planes.  I saw a Cessna 150 once that had an OK 50 foot paint job, other than being solid white except the N number.  Up close it was obviously not a professional job and had the texture of sand paper.  I don't know what that would to to a laminar flow wing, but probably nothing good for performance.  

[Uncleger]

Here’s a thought, work with your IA if he or she is good with the paint job, you might consider having them remove the control surfaces and check/balance of control surfaces, for your own safety if nothing else.  Do a new weight and balance. Update log books with the new info plus anything else the IA is willing to help with.  Its the balance of controls and WB that will raise a flag.  DON’T raise one!!!!!!!

[M20F]

Has this plane crashed yet?

[bcg]

No,  it was not painted during my ownership otherwise I would know who did it and I agree with the all of the above comments.  I am at a loss to explain how this was missed but it is water under the bridge.  So what do I do now? I trash the airplane?  Anybody can tell the good quality of the job and the airplane has been flying for many years now w/o possible flutter issues due to unbalanced surfaces.  I have tried to track down previous owners  (I bought it from  the widow of one of them) and all numbers are no longer in service.  Any suggestions?

Maybe call the A&Ps that signed off work on the plane, one of them probably knows when it was painted and may know who did it.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[LANCECASPER]

10 hours ago, Uncleger said:

Here’s a thought, work with your IA if he or she is good with the paint job, you might consider having them remove the control surfaces and check/balance of control surfaces, for your own safety if nothing else.  Do a new weight and balance. Update log books with the new info plus anything else the IA is willing to help with.  Its the balance of controls and WB that will raise a flag.  DON’T raise one!!!!!!!

4 hours ago, bcg said:

Maybe call the A&Ps that signed off work on the plane, one of them probably knows when it was painted and may know who did it.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
 

 

The post you're replying to is 14 years old. He may have repainted it since then 

If you read through the entire post he found a solution.

[A64Pilot]

On 5/30/2014 at 9:08 AM, John Pleisse said:

Late add..... if this were and interior.....you would have a real problem. IA's don't sign off on interiors that don't have records or may not conform. You be looking at flame test, etc.

We are a CAR 3 airplane, not a FAR 23 airplane, as such we don’t need burn certs, to be perfectly within the regs though we would need a no smoking placard.

FAR 23 is more stringent, but even if you really wanted a burn cert it’s easy, just send a small sample to a DER that has that certification they will burn test it and send you a cert. The burn requirements aren’t nearly as stringent as people think, it’s allowed to burn just not aggressively or some similar verbiage. I am not a DER so I’m paraphrasing. I think it may have to self extinguish when the source of ignition is removed too, but really don’t know.

[tony]

3 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

We are a CAR 3 airplane, not a FAR 23 airplane, as such we don’t need burn certs, to be perfectly within the regs though we would need a no smoking placard.

FAR 23 is more stringent, but even if you really wanted a burn cert it’s easy, just send a small sample to a DER that has that certification they will burn test it and send you a cert. The burn requirements aren’t nearly as stringent as people think, it’s allowed to burn just not aggressively or some similar verbiage. I am not a DER so I’m paraphrasing. I think it may have to self extinguish when the source of ignition is removed too, but really don’t know.

exactly right!